Jesus … having hired himself out as a servant in Egypt on account of his poverty, and having there acquired some miraculous powers, […] retruned to his own country, highly elated on account of them, and by means of these proclaimed himself a God.”
– Origen: Cels. 1.28
In Jesus in the Talmud by Peter Schafer, the Babylonian Talmud says the exact same thing. Jesus learned some magic in Egypt, came back and proclaimed to be more than human.
Establishing chronology for Jesus and his crucifixion: Pilate as prefect, Caiaphas as high priest, 15th year of Tiberius’ reign
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #1: The Death of Theudas
Acts 5:35-36
vs
Josephus – Fadus was procurator 44-46
The story of the beheading of John the Baptist may come from the beheading of Fadus.
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #2: The Use of the Word “Robbers”
The New Testament – Jesus was crucified with two robbers.
vs.
Josephus – robbers are Jewish rebels against Rome and the Jewish establishment
mentions robbers only during insurrections not during the ministry of the Biblical Jesus
Jesus could not have been crucified with “robbers” because there were no insurrections during his ministry
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #3: Crucifixions
The New Testament – Only Jesus is crucified
vs.
Josephus – [Pontius Pilate did “slay” a Samaritan leader] but outside the Testimonium Flavianum related to the Biblical Jesus, there is no mention of crucifixion/s. Josephus mentions crucifixions under Varus (4 BCE) and not again until Tiberius Alexander (46-48 CE)
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #4: The Galilean-Samaritan War
The New Testament – Jewish – Samaritan tensions
Luke 9: 51-56, Samaritans did not receive Jesus. Disciples ready to set fire to a Samaritan village.
vs.
Josephus – There was a Samaritan-Jewish conflict in 48 – 52 CE.
Galileans killed Samaritans and set villages on fire.
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #5: Stephanus
The New Testament – 30s C.E. Stephen is attacked on a road outside Jerusalem by being stoned to death.
Stephen was Greek-speaking (likely a Gentile, possibly a servant of Rome)
vs.
Josephus – 48 C.E. Stephanus is attacked by Jewish rebels on a road outside Jerusalem.
Stephanus was a servant of Rome
Josephus doesn’t write about a Christian movement. Was it depicted as something else in the histories of Josephus?
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #6: Two High Priests
The New Testament – Annas and Caiaphas both have leadership authority
but Annas ben Seth served 6-15 CE while Caiaphas serving 18-36 CE overlaps Jesus’ ministry
vs.
Josephus – As for co-leadership, there is Jonathan and Ananias 47-55 CE
Co-leadership is moved from the late 40s to the late 20s/early 30s.
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #7: Pilate (26-36 CE) vs. Felix (52-59 CE)
The New Testament – A. Luke 13: 1 (there were some present who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingledwith their sacrifices).
B. Luke 23: 12 (Herod and Pilae became friends with each other; before this they had been enemies.) and Matt 27: 19 (Pilate’s wife sent word to him, “Have nothing to do with that innocent man.”)
C. Luke 23: 6-7 Jesus a Galilean was not under Pilate’s jurisdiction. But Herod Antipas was the only ruler of Galilee at that time unlike during the time of Felix and Herod Agrippa II, jurisdiction was divided between them. “Under Herod’s jurisdiction” is superfluous at Luke 23: 6-7.
vs.
Josephus – A. Pilate was not the ruler of Galilee or Galileans, Herod Antipas was. Felix, in his time was ruler of Galilee (hot bead of messianic activity). B. Josephus does not record a wife for Pilate but does record a wife for Procurator Felix. Felix, against the will of King Agrippa II married the Jewish Princess Drusilla, sister of King Agrippa II; so, disagreement/enemies is here in the Felix-Herod Agrippa II acquaintance.
Felix acts more like the Biblical Pilate than Pilate does. Second, Felix crucified a multitude not to be enumerated expressing that Felix crucified more people than Pilate killed by crucifixion.
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #8: The Birth of Jesus
The New Testament – A. Jesus born before 4 BCE but Luke says Jesus was born in 6 CE.
vs.
Josephus
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #9: Jesus Return from Egypt
Celsus in Alethes Logos in 175 CE says Jesus returned from Egypt as am adult man. Jesus starts his ministry as a man.
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #10: The Egyptian
The New Testament – The Garden of Gethsemene is at the foot of the Mount of Olives. (30s CE)
Mark 15: 7 Jesus Barabbas was in prison with the rebels who had committed murder during the insurrection. Jesus, son of God the Father[see Matt 27: 16-17] was put in prison.
Luke 22: 36: the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one.
John 18: 12 1,000 soldiers and a captain/commander of 1,000 took Jesus.
Acts 21: 38 Then you are not the Egyptian who recently stirred up a revolt and led the four thousand Sicarii out into the wilderness?”
vs.
Josephus – The Egyptian was confronted at the Mount of Olives. (50s CE)
Both had lived in Egypt. Both are messianic leaders with a great following. Both are perceived as major threats by the authorities. The arrest of Jesus takes events/details from the arrest of the Egyptian. Taking events from the 50s and move it back to the late 20s/early 30s in the story of the Biblical Jesus.
Amulo, Bishop of Lyons (ca. 847), wrote Letter against the Jews to King Charles, in it, he states, “In their own language, they call him Ussum Hamizri, Dissipator Aegyptius” or The Egyptian Destroyer.
Arnobius of Sicca in his Against the Heathen (Adversus Gentes), wrote: “Jesus was a Magician; he effected all these things by secret arts. From the shrines of the Egyptians, he stole the names of angels of might…”
Couldn’t Jesus and his Father command angels?
pick up at 37:20 / 47:20
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #11: John the Baptist
Chronological Puzzle, Difficult to Understand #11: John the Baptist
The New Testament – forerunner of Jesus, preached by the Jordan River. His head was severed by order of Herod Antipas; but, Herod Antipas was the ruler of Galilee, not Judea where John was active.
The names of the rebels are mentioned: Theudas at Acts 5: 36, the Egyptian at Acts 21: 38, and Judas the Galilean at Acts 5:37.
vs.
Josephus – Theudas was the forerunner of the Egyptian.
Now it came to pass while Fadus was procurator of Judea that a certain magician whose name was Theudas persuaded a great part of the people to […] follow him to the river Jordan. He told them he was a prophet […] However, Fadus did not permit them to make any advantage of his wild attempt but sent a troop of horesemen out against them. …They cut off his head … J.A. 20. 97-99
= = =
Scripture was written on two levels: face value / obvious and concealed.
= = =
The oral tradition does not match the histories of Josephus but definitely picks up events and details along the way to being written beginning circa 66 C.E. – Steefen
= = =
Why the time shift? To avoid competing accounts. Second, Josephus, turncoat to the Romans was harsh on the messianic leaders of his former people. Gospel authors could not compete with Rome’s authorized historian placing a good messiah against Josephus’ negative accounts. They got Josephus’ blessing (Testimonium Flavianum) when they decided not to compete with his histories when they pushed the Biblical Jesus back by decades. Sounds like Josephus with divided loyalties again. The cost of doing this was greatly diminishing Jesus as a historical person.
Professor Ehrman:
No, the “Egyptian” was a separate, otherwise virtually unknown individual, mentioned as well in the book of Acts (and so clearly not referring to Jesus)
Steefen:
No. That is not what I am taking from her presentation. The 11 points that follow are what I’m taking from her presentation. You probably agree with some of them because she builds a presentation on undeniable quotations. Feel free to the list the numbers with which you disagree and why. Thank you.
1) The oral tradition does not match the histories of Josephus but definitely picks up events and details along the way to being written beginning circa 66 C.E. – Steefen
2) Why the time shift? To avoid competing accounts. Second, Josephus, turncoat to the Romans was harsh on the messianic leaders of his former people. Gospel authors could not compete with Rome’s authorized historian placing a good messiah against Josephus’ negative accounts. They got Josephus’ blessing (Testimonium Flavianum) when they decided not to compete with his histories when they pushed the Biblical Jesus back by decades. Sounds like Josephus with divided loyalties again. The cost of doing this was greatly diminishing Jesus as a historical person.
3) Jesus could not have been crucified with “robbers” because there were no insurrections during his ministry.
4) Two high priests mentioned in the New Testament at Luke 3: 2? Co-leadership is moved from the late 40s to the late 20s/early 30s.
5) During the time of Felix and Herod Agrippa II, jurisdiction was divided between them. “Under Herod’s jurisdiction” is superfluous at Luke 23: 6-7.
6) Felix acts more like the Biblical Pilate than Pilate does. Second, Felix crucified a multitude not to be enumerated expressing that Felix crucified more people than Pilate killed by crucifixion.
7) Celsus in Alethes Logos in 175 CE says Jesus returned from Egypt as an adult man. Jesus starts his ministry as a man.
8 ) Luke 22: 36: the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one.
John 18: 12 1,000 soldiers and a captain/commander of 1,000 took Jesus.
The Egyptian was confronted at the Mount of Olives. (50s CE).
Both the Biblical Jesus and the Egyptian are said to have lived in Egypt. Both are messianic leaders with a great following. Both are perceived as major threats by the authorities. The arrest of Jesus takes events/details from the arrest of the Egyptian.
9) Amulo, Bishop of Lyons (ca. 847), wrote Letter against the Jews to King Charles, in it, he states, “In their own language, they call him Ussum Hamizri, Dissipator Aegyptius” or The Egyptian Destroyer.
10) Arnobius of Sicca in his Against the Heathen (Adversus Gentes), wrote: “Jesus was a Magician; he effected all these things by secret arts. From the shrines of the Egyptians, he stole the names of angels of might…” Couldn’t Jesus and his Father command angels?
11) The New Testament – forerunner of Jesus, preached by the Jordan River. His head was severed by order of Herod Antipas; but, Herod Antipas was the ruler of Galilee, not Judea where John was active.
Now it came to pass while Fadus was procurator of Judea that a certain magician whose name was Theudas persuaded a great part of the people to […] follow him to the river Jordan. He told them he was a prophet […] However, Fadus did not permit them to make any advantage of his wild attempt but sent a troop of horesemen out against them. …They cut off his head … J.A. 20. 97-99
So, did Paul’s conversion happen before the crucifixion?
He says (2 Cor 11:33 and Acts 9:25) that he was imprisoned in Damascus by King Aretas who died in CE40.
That is well before Theudas or the Egyptian appear on the scene.
Maybe some details about these two got ascribed to Jesus when the Gospels were written, using stories from refugees fleeing from destruction in Jerusalem.
This is quite an entertaining presentation and includes many informative historical details. But I doubt it. That Jesus’s family fled to Egypt is not multiply attested by the Gospels–it’s only in Matthew, and it’s not that historically likely given the fact that the event which precipitated the flight, Herod’s slaughter of Bethlehem infants, most likely itself never happened. Luke’s dating is generally awful–he has the infamous ten-year gap in the time period within which Jesus is supposed to have been born–so much for his claim to create an accurate account. But I doubt he systematically shifted events backward by several decades. Jesus and the Egyptian are reported to have experienced very different outcomes to their “resistance,” so I doubt much can be made of the Mount of Olives detail. That the Gospels would use anachronisms to describe people crucified with Jesus is not that surprising. And, when Josephus reports that under Tiberius reign, “all was quiet” does not imply that no Roman-Jewish tensions persisted from the 20’s to the early ’40’s. So, the hypothesis doesn’t seem very plausible.
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