As I’ve heard you state recently, it’s most likely the case that shortly after Jesus’ death, possibly within a few days or weeks of his death, 20 of Jesus’ disciples came to believe that he rose from the dead. At our current level of knowledge, we’ve come to realize that the psychological phenomenon of experiencing that a loved one is still alive, after they’ve recently passed, is actually common.
My father died three years ago. Within the first few weeks of his death, when I was in the room where he spent most of his remaining days, I very strongly felt his presence. I didn’t see him. I didn’t speak with him. I merely felt that he was somehow present. It’s probably safe to assume that Jesus’ followers had some kind of similar experience. Although in their case, they claim to have seen Jesus. My question is this, How do they go from having an experience that Jesus is present, and actually seeing a vision of him, to jumping to the conclusion that this was a resurrection? To me, this leap is absolutely extraordinary, to my knowledge, no other religion claims that their leader rose from the dead. The entire foundation of Christianity rests upon this one assertion.
Why didn’t they say to themselves, “We saw a vision of Jesus?” Why did they say he rose from the dead? They could have also interpreted His vision as a ghost. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the Gnostic Christians proposed that these early visions of Jesus were the sightings of a ghost or spirit? I realize that this is mostly conjecture on your part. There is no way to know the answer. But I find this question incredibly fascinating. What did the early Christians really experience that had them think Jesus had risen from the dead, and was still somehow alive?
After the resurrection, the Gospels have the apostles interacting with Jesus. They touch Him; they interact with Him; they communicate with Him. Correct me if I’m wrong, in the Gospels, I believe the Risen Jesus gives the apostles more instructions than the earthly Jesus.
During the resurrection experience of Jesus’ early followers, What do you think actually happened? Did Jesus’ followers think they touched him? Could they communicate with Him? What did His early followers mean by resurrection? Did they think that Jesus’ body was somehow reanimated? I would appreciate your thoughts on this most fascinated subject.
Thanks,
Jim Domino
Jim first of all, Prof Ehrman doesn’t normally respond to questions in this forum. He answers questions over at his actual blog on the member page.
Second, when he is asked a question that is covered in a book he wrote Prof Ehrman usually refers you to that particular book. In this case, HOW JESUS BECAME GOD, which has a section dealing with post-mortem appearances.
Finally, I share your fascination with this subject. I too had an experience of a recently departed loved one. In my case it was a vivid, even visionary, dream where this deceased person appeared and gave me words of comfort. If I was like the ancients and believed that dreams were visions of another world I could have easily accepted this experience as an authentic vision.
To try to answer your question, perhaps there was something in Jesus’ apocalyptic view that prepared his disciples to respond in the way they did. Perhaps they experienced ecstatic, visionary states while he was alive. Paul was an apocalypticist and he and his churches certainly experienced and encouraged such states.
It wouldn’t have to have been everybody affected of course. Maybe one or two of the women who followed Jesus and maybe one or two of the movement leaders. Then the enthusiasm would spread from there. I think the episodes where Jesus eats and touches the disciples were just later literary inventions.
Stephen:
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Your idea of some kind of ecstatic state happening is interesting. I hadn’t thought of that possibility. I’ll get Professor Ehrman’s book on How Jesus Became God. And thanks for the information on how the site works. I didn’t realize that Dr. Ehrman only responded to the blog posts. Thanks again.
Best,
Jim Domino
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As I’ve heard you state recently, it’s most likely the case that shortly after Jesus’ death, possibly within a few days or weeks of his death, 20 of Jesus’ disciples came to believe that he rose from the dead. At our current level of knowledge, we’ve come to realize that the psychological phenomenon of experiencing that a loved one is still alive, after they’ve recently passed, is actually common.My father died three years ago. Within the first few weeks of his death, when I was in the room where he spent most of his remaining days, I very strongly felt his presence. I didn’t see him. I didn’t speak with him. I merely felt that he was somehow present. It’s probably safe to assume that Jesus’ followers had some kind of similar experience. Although in their case, they claim to have seen Jesus. My question is this, How do they go from having an experience that Jesus is present, and actually seeing a vision of him, to jumping to the conclusion that this was a resurrection? To me, this leap is absolutely extraordinary, to my knowledge, no other religion claims that their leader rose from the dead. The entire foundation of Christianity rests upon this one assertion.
Why didn’t they say to themselves, “We saw a vision of Jesus?” Why did they say he rose from the dead? They could have also interpreted His vision as a ghost. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the Gnostic Christians proposed that these early visions of Jesus were the sightings of a ghost or spirit? I realize that this is mostly conjecture on your part. There is no way to know the answer. But I find this question incredibly fascinating. What did the early Christians really experience that had them think Jesus had risen from the dead, and was still somehow alive?
After the resurrection, the Gospels have the apostles interacting with Jesus. They touch Him; they interact with Him; they communicate with Him. Correct me if I’m wrong, in the Gospels, I believe the Risen Jesus gives the apostles more instructions than the earthly Jesus.
During the resurrection experience of Jesus’ early followers, What do you think actually happened? Did Jesus’ followers think they touched him? Could they communicate with Him? What did His early followers mean by resurrection? Did they think that Jesus’ body was somehow reanimated? I would appreciate your thoughts on this most fascinated subject.
Thanks,
Jim Domino
Another way of viewing this problem is to ask what was the later function of these “visions” in the continued movement and what would have happened if they had carried on their mission, preaching the message of their master without the claim that he had been resurrected? Their master had told them that they should all be appointed to high positions in the coming kingdom. The “visions” prevented them from admitting they had spent years on a failure. The visions came with ease, I think.
In addition to his interaction with the disciples on several occasions prior to his ascension into heaven, he had instructed the disciples to wait at Jerusalem for the promise of the Father, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This was received on the 50th day after his resurrection from the dead, the day of Pentecost. This confirmed that he was alive. (Acts 2:1-39)
And I can add my own testimony to the fact that he is alive because I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit in February 1980.
Bill Martinez
Yes indeed. The answer is, he rose from the dead exactly as He said He would, over and over again. For the disciples to make up and perpetuate a resurrection story instead of admitting they were wrong, they asked for severe punishment including stoning, which no sane person would do. Even insane people don’t make up bizarre stories and subject themselves to torture for hanging on to it. Remember old Steve who was murdered in front of Saul for preaching to the Sanhedrin.
The disciples were flogged repeatedly for sticking to the resurrection account. Flogging wasn’t a lot of fun, either. Some didn’t live through it. He appeared to 500 at one time, too. Don’t forget Tom and his hand in the side. They had no reason to lie and they exploded onto the scene when He sent the H.S. to them. They broke loose in an instant from the chains of fear to become bold outspoken zealots, which is further proof that He rose from the grave.
It takes far more imagination and stretching of what’s probable to wind up with 37,000 different, nutty theories than to accept the account as handed down to us through the bloodied efforts of the early band of believers.
You know what is funny? How hard people try to deny what so plainly took place 2,000 years ago. Every twisted, weird, bizarre, preposterous, impossible, ridiculous, far-fetched, completely wacko, far-flung, ludicrous scheme has been dreamed up to try to refute the resurrection. They don’t work nor should they. They are just as impossible or more so than the original account. What’s the point?
Not only that, but millions and millions and millions and millions will tell you the same thing! He did rise from the dead and has come to live in our hearts in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Bart tells us this is what happened to him.
“For me, at the time, it felt like an enormous relief, a lifting of burden, a sense of connecting with the universe in a way I never had before. Very powerful!”
“It makes sense that Jesus mattered to me as a late teenager, when I had a born-again experience and became a conservative evangelical. (What I converted from to “become a Christian” continues to puzzle me.) “For me, at the time, it felt like an enormous relief, a lifting of burden, a sense of connecting with the universe in a way I never had before. Very powerful!” “At that point Jesus became not only my Lord and Savior, but also my best friend and closest ally.”
“Jesus was my model of self-giving love…”
You all don’t believe that Dr. Bart was delusional, do you or under someone’s spell? Note this, too: Bart’s born again days lasted from his mid-teen years into his mid to late twenties. This was not a wham bam experience at all. Every time you condemn or criticize reborners, you do the same to what Bart knew and became.
The fact that the same results have recurred millions of times to the same message is scientifically extremely significant. If you’re interested, go and gather the testimonies of converts to any other religion. Find out what God has done for them.
“The “visions” prevented them from admitting they had spent years on a failure. The visions came with ease, I think.”
Those visions led to severe floggings. James was murdered for his “visions”. Paul was tortured. And I’d bet my life there were many more acts of violence they endured for their visions.
BDEhrman
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