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thy kingdom come
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Blink_3

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May 27, 2017 - 6:09 am

when matthew has jesus say this ,

 

thy kingdom come . thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven

 

is the implication that torah theocracy will be re established on earth? 

 

john says, 

 

my kingdom is not of this world 

John 18:36

 

but we know that in the  torah fighting preceded before the establishment of Gods rule on earth 

 

so are there contradictions between john and matthew? 

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Blink_3

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May 27, 2017 - 6:19 am

isaiah 45:18, 23

isaiah 14:1-2

dan 7:27

matthew 1.21-23

 

matthew 22:2

matthew 22:7

all seem to imply divine or human violence before establishment of kingdom, so why did john go against this? 

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R.Wheeler

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May 27, 2017 - 3:58 pm

The law is spiritual.

Yes it is written and explained that the Law Christ himself lived by and taught will be the Law of his kingdom because it is the Law God himself lives by and taught.

There is no contradiction in the statements “thy kingdom come . thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven” and “my kingdom is not of this world ” if you understand what is meant by things of the spirit scripturally speaking. Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom. Things of spirit exist in some sense in the physical world but it is hard for people to understand it, “But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.”  being a spiritual being does not eliminate being a physical being, it is indicated that a state of being both is possible. It is also indicated that one (flesh/physical) will pass away at one time, whetheras the other will not. This concept is different than the concept of soul in the scriptures, even a physical being has a soul, but may not necessarily be born of the spirit. This is supported by comments from christ “be afraid of the one who can destroy the body and the soul” and “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.” and “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

There would be no reason to destroy something which has no sin in it. It is also indicated that the body is not necessarily the flesh, “For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit”, the scriptures talk alot about the goings on in the body, but it is different than how it addresses the flesh. It is apparent that flesh is what a body is comprised of but also that this flesh is a center of desires, and it is apparent that those desires are contray to desires that are spirit, indicating that it does not see/understand/perceive spiritual things. 

 

This concept is why the scriptures are difficult to understand, much like a poem it is a mixture of languages and meanings , with layered meanings all over.

 

I dont understand “but we know that in the  torah fighting preceded before the establishment of Gods rule on earth ” I believe you are saying “in the Torah, fighting preceded before the establishment of Gods rule on earth”  but I see nothing to indicate any fighting before Adam/creation. In fact it would be impossible. I do know that some promote a falling of Hasatan and others somehow before Adam, but looking into that its pretty easy to see that its just a confusion/misunderstanding/misrepresentation of certain passages, while ignoring the obvious meaning of others.

 

In john it is not said, my Kingdom will not be on this world, but rather it is not OF this world, and those around him were not his servants or they would stop what was happening. This can be understood a bunch of ways. One is that his kingdom is of the spirit, and there were none there born of the spirit, and the world that was there was only of the flesh. Another may be that his kingdom was not of that world at that time, and later when “his body” of believers is raised his kingdom will be established.

 

The OT contains certain “on the third day” references and in the NT there is the reference christ makes about the temple being destroyed and him raising it up, and how it was linked to his body. Most make the connection to his person body, but it doesnt seem to fit really. But in terms of days being time period aeon, epic, age, 100 years, etc it may well been him explaining those certain references and a restoration of faith. Most would say but his believers have been here thousands of years.. well there have been those who intended to be believers in him, but actually were believers in the teachings of other men, which taught contrary to what christ himself taught and walked. So his kingdom was of a future time and future people.

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