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Was Jesus literate?
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duaneep

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March 23, 2019 - 10:48 pm

In John 8; 6-8 the scribes and Pharisees ask Jesus to say what should be done with an adulterous woman, Two times he stoops down,  and “with his finger wrote on the ground”.

What did he write?

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gavriel

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March 24, 2019 - 3:21 pm

duaneep said
In John 8; 6-8 the scribes and Pharisees ask Jesus to say what should be done with an adulterous woman, Two times he stoops down,  and “with his finger wrote on the ground”.

What did he write?  

The story is probably wholly legendary. Elsewhere hee is not reported to have ever written anything. Why?

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AstaKask

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March 25, 2019 - 7:06 am

6 x 7 = 42

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Rokyro

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March 28, 2019 - 9:43 am

duaneep said
In John 8; 6-8 the scribes and Pharisees ask Jesus to say what should be done with an adulterous woman, Two times he stoops down,  and “with his finger wrote on the ground”.

What did he write?  

Assuming the passage isn’t a forgery.  That’s a big assumption.  This story only appears in John, we don’t hear of it in the synoptics or Paul, therefore it is a single unattested claim. Furthermore, it comes from the latest gospel.  

So what we have is an unattested claim that appears late in the tradition and furthers the authors literary agenda.  Let’s also not forget that the best studies we have indicate literacy rates in 1st century Galilee to be about 3%.  Soooo…. I’m guessing he wrote “Boo!”.

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Stephen
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March 28, 2019 - 3:31 pm

Interesting though that Jesus’ writing his nothing to do with the point of the story.  Just an irrelevant little detail.  Perhaps it had some profound significance to the author and his audience that is now lost forever.  Oh well.

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Robert
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March 29, 2019 - 7:52 am
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AstaKask

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March 29, 2019 - 12:47 pm

I think he was working on his novel.

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brenmcg

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March 30, 2019 - 1:29 pm

To modern eyes the pericope adulterae is a wonderful story and it seems almost inconceivable an early christian could remove something which shows Jesus in such a good light. But reading Tertullian’s “On Modesty” gives a sense of what the pericope meant to christians like Tertullian in the late 2nd early 3rd century.

According to Tertullian in On Modesty adultery was a worse crime than murder. We should take Tertullian at his word here and not treat this as mere hyperbole.

Ch V “It honoured adultery, of course, to which it gives the precedence over murder, in the very fore-front of the most holy law”

Ch V “I behold a certain pomp and circumstance of adultery: on the one side, Idolatry goes before and leads the way; on the other, Murder follows in company.”

To understand the pericope adulterae from Tertullian’s perspective we should imagine the woman taken to Jesus had been caught in the very act of murder. Jesus then tells those without sin to cast the first stone and when none are left tells the murderer to go away and sin no more.

Had the pericope involved a murderer it would be quite obvious to us that the explanation for its absence in early Greek manuscripts was its removal by christians like Tertullian.

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Robert
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March 30, 2019 - 2:48 pm
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brenmcg

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March 30, 2019 - 4:56 pm

Robert said

Do you believe that the story was original to Luke or John?  

John.

I think the placement in Luke in some manuscripts is down to the incorrect link of the lines about Jesus returning to the mount of olives.

I think John 8:12, the first line after the pericope, “παλιν ουν ο ιησους αυτοις ελαλησεν” “again Jesus spoke to them” indicates an immediate follow on with what has gone before – impossible if the pericope in John is removed.

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duaneep

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April 15, 2019 - 8:54 pm

Might it be an error translating from the original source; Greek to English or maybe Greek to Latin then to English as “wrote”?  Maybe a better translation would be “doodle”.

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Robert
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April 16, 2019 - 1:24 am
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Matt2239

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April 16, 2019 - 11:57 am

duaneep said
In John 8; 6-8 the scribes and Pharisees ask Jesus to say what should be done with an adulterous woman, Two times he stoops down,  and “with his finger wrote on the ground”.

What did he write?  

Questions about what Jesus wrote soon drift to the question of whether he could write.  You may recall the story about that time Jesus was separated from his parents and was discovered in the temple.  It details how smart and astute Jesus was.  Stylish naysayers like to point out that only 3% of people in Judea could read or write, so it’s unlikely Jesus was literate.  That overlooks the most significant fact of all: Jesus and his disciples are the most unlikely people in all of human history.  Jesus’ ministry lasted only three years and he executed in a horrific way, and yet today there are 2 billion people and 6 billion books that all say he rose from the dead.  

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Matt2239

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April 16, 2019 - 12:05 pm

AstaKask said
I think he was working on his novel.  

By what method was Jesus ever excluded as an author of any particular gospel or book?  

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Stephen
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April 17, 2019 - 9:51 am

Stylish naysayers…

I agree, having an opinion about literacy in ancient Palestine is definitely a mark of style.

 

…the most unlikely people…

Statistically improbable events happen all the time.  Justin Bieber’s musical career for example.

 

By what method was Jesus ever excluded as an author of any particular gospel or book?  

Hey if Moses could write the Pentateuch then Jesus could write the gospels.

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Matt2239

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April 17, 2019 - 10:22 am

Stephen said
Stylish naysayers…

I agree, having an opinion about literacy in ancient Palestine is definitely a mark of style.

 

…the most unlikely people…

Statistically improbable events happen all the time.  Justin Bieber’s musical career for example.

 

By what method was Jesus ever excluded as an author of any particular gospel or book?  

Hey if Moses could write the Pentateuch then Jesus could write the gospels.  

I agree with your estimate about the literacy rate in ancient Judea.  No reason to dispute it.  And it’s likely that a randomly selected person from that time would have a 97% likelihood of being illiterate.  Jesus and his disciples are not randomly selected.  They are the most unlikely historical figures ever.  

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godspell

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April 18, 2019 - 5:38 pm

There are many different levels of literacy.  Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist, most scholars now believe.  Was John the Baptist literate?   John the Baptist was probably an Essene.  Obviously some Essenes were literate, since they left us quite a lot of writings.  It is hardly improbable that Jesus had some ability to read and (perhaps) write Aramaic and Hebrew, closely related languages.  Hebrew would have been particularly important, given his evident desire to know God’s will through the scriptures.  

Given the chance to learn, any intelligent person can learn to read and write.  But it’s time-consuming, and most poor people, in societies lacking schools, don’t have a chance to learn, and are not encouraged to do so, since all are expected to support the family.  

Jesus was not a carpenter.  He had devoted himself to what was, in essence, a scholarly life–the life of an intinerant rabbi.  He was clearly of exceptional intelligence.  He was expected to know more than the average person in order to speak with authority, and there is some evidence that people he talked to were impressed by his knowledge of scripture.  Unless you believe he just memorized it from hearing it read out loud, obviously he could read.  

There are numerous examples of Native Americans who, in the early days of European colonization, taught themselves to read and write English and other languages.  I see no reason why Jesus couldn’t.  The only real evidence he wasn’t literate is that he left no writings.  (By which reasoning, we must assume Alexander the Great, Cleopatra, and Socrates were all illiterate).  

The story of the woman taken in adultery can’t be confirmed to have happened, but it’s hard to explain why such a story would have survived, and then be added to the John gospel, if it wasn’t based on a real event.  It’s problematic on a number of levels for early Christianity.  The woman never expresses any penitence for her sin (sexual morality mattered no less to early Christians than it did to Jews), and is not said to become a follower of Jesus–and the Jews who bring her to Jesus are shown to have a pang of conscience when he confronts them with their hypocrisy.  There is also the implication that Jesus is saying no on there–himself included–has any right to stone her, because all are sinners themselves.  

Roger David Aus, in his article “Caught in the Act–With Whom and By Whom?” thinks Jesus was writing the beginnings of two bible verses–that the leaders of the group confronting him would recognize, and understand the relevance of.  He thinks they were Malachai 2:11 and Hosea 4:14.  The latter of which has God telling Israel that He will not condemn the women for committing acts of fornication, because the men have committed them as well.  And of course, Jesus was not alone among Jews of that time in believing that lustful thoughts were no less sinful than the actual deed.  And since Aus believes the man caught in adultery was not a Jew (that’s why he’s not there), but rather a Roman (the city is full of soldiers at Passover), the former verse would be to remind those present that Jewish men have likewise consorted with gentiles.  They were not stoning her for adultery, but disloyalty, consorting with the enemy.    

There are other things he could have written.  But Aus’ argument is pretty tight.  I highly recommend the piece.  

Nobody made this story up to prove Jesus could write.  There was no need to do that.  Nor does the story, as preserved, tell us what Jesus was writing (possibly Jesus’ followers who were present were themselves illiterate, or not well-schooled enough in scripture, so they simply didn’t know).  So it’s a rather odd thing to have him do, without explaining it.  It makes the story more compelling, more mysterious.  As does Jesus’ brief admonition to the woman, which seems incomplete–unless he wasn’t trying to teach her, except perhaps by example.  He was trying to teach her accusers, some of whom were literate, and not immune to reason or deaf to conscience.  (This is how we can be sure John didn’t include it, since he considered educated Jews hostile to Jesus to be both those things).

In any event, Jesus died a few days later.

Question–if any of you had witnessed this, would you be able to forget it?

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Robert
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April 20, 2019 - 1:30 pm
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godspell

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April 20, 2019 - 8:21 pm

I most certainly do not believe Jesus was a great scholar, nor do I think he knew any languages besides Aramaic and (some) Hebrew–enough to study the Torah and other available religious texts.  The scenario you describe is perfectly reasonable, but there are other possibilities.  

As to why he left no writings–for whom?  For what posterity?  To what end?  He believes the world is going to be utterly transformed in the lifetimes of those he preaches to.  That God will lay low the kingdoms of men, and only those of good will–those who need no holy books to teach them how to behave–will remain.  No more sin, no more ignorance–no more need for books.  (Personally, I think they might have gotten bored after a while, enjoyed a good novel here and there, but it’s a moot point, since the novel hadn’t been invented yet.)

Socrates was certainly educated.  We have not one word or idea of his that wasn’t preserved by Plato or Xenophon.  Mixed in with a lot of things that never came from him.  And while I do tend to think that had Jesus written anything down, it would have been preserved by his followers, we shouldn’t assume too much–Alexander created an empire that (in various parts) lasted for centuries after his death.  We know he could write.  We have nothing written by him either.  (Offhand, I don’t even know of any writings of his that were said to exist once, though one assumes there were things like military dispatches, correspondence).  

I think he could read quite well, and write at least a bit.  I think he wrote something in the dirt when they brought that woman to him.  I think some of them read it.  I think it made them ashamed.  I can think that if I want to.  Try and stop me.  😉

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Robert
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April 20, 2019 - 10:27 pm
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