Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
who raised jesus from the dead?
Avatar
rickgill

97 Posts
(Offline)
1
July 20, 2023 - 9:09 am

part of 1 cor 15 says,
…entombed that he was awakened

so this implies early christians were passing on tradition which said that jesus was awakened and awakened here is in the passive. if paul has high christology, can we say that the tradition he received was low in christology since the tradition does not say that jesus raised himself ?

Avatar
Porphyry

1857 Posts
(Offline)
2
July 20, 2023 - 11:42 am

If you are referring to egegertai in v. 4 it is either passive *or middle*. The the two are, I believe, indistinguishable.

Avatar
Robert
7126 Posts
(Offline)
3
July 20, 2023 - 12:32 pm
Avatar
Stephen
4630 Posts
(Offline)
4
July 20, 2023 - 12:39 pm

Paul was clearly a subordinationist. Jesus was created by God and subsequently exalted by God. I suppose you can call this a “high” christology but you’re still centuries away from Nicean trinitarianism.

Avatar
brenmcg

1184 Posts
(Offline)
5
July 20, 2023 - 4:49 pm

1 Cor 15:20 “Now however Christ has been raised from the dead, the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.”

The analogy with falling asleep is supposed to be maintained, “resurrection/awakening” is a direct reversal of it.

Both are in the passive voice in the verse, but if Paul still allows for christ to be an active participant in his own death, there is also allowance for him to be an active participant in his own re-awakening.

Avatar
Robert
7126 Posts
(Offline)
6
July 20, 2023 - 5:21 pm
Avatar
brenmcg

1184 Posts
(Offline)
7
July 20, 2023 - 7:50 pm

Yes reawakened in the body, but the body itself is transformed into a spiritual/imperishable/heavenly one.

The living will have their bodies transformed in just the same way at the trumpet call – same as the dead who will be resurrected to the same body but a transformed one.

Avatar
Robert
7126 Posts
(Offline)
8
July 20, 2023 - 7:53 pm
Avatar
brenmcg

1184 Posts
(Offline)
9
July 21, 2023 - 4:23 am

Yes a transformation – but the same body transformed.

Just as the seed that becomes wheat isn’t left behind but becomes the plant.

The point is that Paul believed the body rose and left the tomb (transformed though it may have been).

Avatar
rickgill

97 Posts
(Offline)
10
July 21, 2023 - 4:48 am

“es reawakened in the body, but the body itself is transformed into a spiritual/imperishable/heavenly one”.

Whose doing the transformation? According to the tradition, God.

If the body was say chewed up or pieces of it, then the body would be transformed ?

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7802
Stephen: 4630
Porphyry: 1857
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1468
BJH1960: 1228
brenmcg: 1184
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
skuerbitz
janetlebaron
ehengstebeck
Battykat
smortenson1227
LHarvell
gary barth
phillner
abzaferi2
gappy98
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2619
Posts: 46630

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 65944
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 28
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)