One of the most important messages I remember from Prof. Ehrman:
Judaism/Jewish Theology/Relationship with God through Time
Our problems are based on disobedience
to
We have been obedient but really bad things happen to us nevertheless
so, we have to drop that we deserve the bad things that happen to us because it is not disobedience
to
Then, I do not remember what he said after that. I also do not remember where or when he said this. I thought it was in From Jesus to Constantine Great Courses video. I distinctly remember him talking about the progress of theology in Judaism. Maybe he was bringing his audience to the time between the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. Maybe he was describing 1st century messianism after rejecting the former paradigm of disobedience-punishment.
Let me know what I am vaguely remembering.
Thank you.
Steefen said
One of the most important messages I remember from Prof. Ehrman:Judaism/Jewish Theology/Relationship with God through Time
Our problems are based on disobedience
to
We have been obedient but really bad things happen to us nevertheless
so, we have to drop that we deserve the bad things that happen to us because it is not disobedience
to . . .
I think the
‘Our problems are based on disobedience’ to We have been obedient but really bad things happen to us nevertheless so, we have to drop that we deserve the bad things that happen to us because it is not disobedience’
is what he sees as the rise of apoclypyicsm
i.e – the bad things happen because of evil forces (the devil) controlling the world
are you asking if there is post-apocalyptic
‘Judaism/Jewish Theology/Relationship with God’ separate from christian theology?
Robert said
It definitely sounds like you are describing Bart’s views expressed his book ** you do not have permission to see this link **. He’s also alluded to this issue more generally on the blog, and probably elsewhere, but he deals with this in most detail in this book.
Hi Robert,
I was hoping for a video. I am remembering watching him talk about this. I did not read God’s Problem, so I am not remembering it from that source.
Thank you,
Steefen
tompicard said
Steefen said
One of the most important messages I remember from Prof. Ehrman:
Judaism/Jewish Theology/Relationship with God through Time
Our problems are based on disobedience
to
We have been obedient but really bad things happen to us nevertheless
so, we have to drop that we deserve the bad things that happen to us because it is not disobedience
to . . .
I think the
‘Our problems are based on disobedience’ to We have been obedient but really bad things happen to us nevertheless so, we have to drop that we deserve the bad things that happen to us because it is not disobedience’
is what he sees as the rise of apoclypyicsm
i.e – the bad things happen because of evil forces (the devil) controlling the world
are you asking if there is post-apocalyptic
‘Judaism/Jewish Theology/Relationship with God’ separate from christian theology?
Tompicard and Robert,
Tompicard, I think you are correct. You rang a bell that said, Bart did say something to the effect that Jewish thought did progress to righteousness will be in the afterlife, not this life. Jewish experience clearly showed God was not settling matters in this world, so that forced apocalypticism.
I’m going to pass on your closing question, for now.
Professor Ehrman, I watched a video of you years ago where you excellently explained the evolution of Jewish thought from 1) our problems are based on disobedience (God of Noah?) to 2) no, it is not disobedience that has caused these very bad things to happen to us, such as the Babylonian Exile to 3) well, if God will make us suffer beyond our disobedience, God will settle things later; and, that is how we get messianism ushering in apocalypticism in Judaism.
Hopefully I remembered your excellent lecture correctly.
Did that come from your video lecture series, “Historical Jesus,” The Great Courses, Lecture 12 Jesus in His Context or Lectures 14-16 that cover the Apocalyptic Prophet, Apocalyptic Teachings, and Other Teachings in their Apocalyptic Context?
In the Member Forum, Robert told me you wrote about the evolution of Judaism to apocalypticism in God’s Problem … Why We Suffer. I can imagine it being in that book, but I also can imagine it being in Jesus Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium.
Thank you.
Submitted to Bart under his Dec 1 post, “What does it even mean to have an ‘original’ of an ancient writing?”
tompicard
Are you asking if there is post-apocalyptic ‘Judaism/Jewish Theology/Relationship with God’ separate from Christian theology?
Steefen
No. I have a hard stop at 100 C.E. The Apocalypse was only the Tribulation of the Jewish Civil War and the First Jewish-Roman War.
You are thinking that the Apocalyptic Event was not a win for the Hebrew God, given the destruction of Jerusalem, the defeat of messiahs and rebels, and the destruction of the Temple, so what would be next in the progression after Apocalypticism? Post-Apocalypticism?
I do not think there could be a revival of a triumphant god after that god’s temple was destroyed, after two more wars with Rome were not won, then after the Dome of the Rock was constructed, anti-Semitism in the Middle Ages, then WWII.
Steefen said
Professor Ehrman, I watched a video of you years ago where you excellently explained the evolution of Jewish thought from 1) our problems are based on disobedience (God of Noah?) to 2) no, it is not disobedience that has caused these very bad things to happen to us, such as the Babylonian Exile to 3) well, if God will make us suffer beyond our disobedience, God will settle things later; and, that is how we get messianism ushering in apocalypticism in Judaism.Hopefully I remembered your excellent lecture correctly.
Did that come from your video lecture series, “Historical Jesus,” The Great Courses, Lecture 12 Jesus in His Context or Lectures 14-16 that cover the Apocalyptic Prophet, Apocalyptic Teachings, and Other Teachings in their Apocalyptic Context?
In the Member Forum, Robert told me you wrote about the evolution of Judaism to apocalypticism in God’s Problem … Why We Suffer. I can imagine it being in that book, but I also can imagine it being in Jesus Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium.
Thank you.
Submitted to Bart under his Dec 1 post, “What does it even mean to have an ‘original’ of an ancient writing?”
Bart’s Reply Where I Posted the Question in Recent Posts
I”m not sure which video you were watching, but it’s the kind of thing I’ve talked about a long time. I do address it briefly in Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet.
Steefen
The evolution of Jewish thought from
1) our problems are based on disobedience (God of Noah?)
to 2) no, it is not disobedience that has caused these very bad things to happen to us, such as the Babylonian Exile
to 3) well, now we are under an abusive Roman Empire, if God will make us suffer beyond our disobedience, God will settle things later;
and, that is how we get messianism ushering in apocalypticism in Judaism.
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