
** you do not have permission to see this link **
‘… Herod himself had arranged to have John arrested and put in prison because of Herodias, the wife of Herod’s brother Philip. Herod had married her, but John told Herod, “It’s against the law for you to marry your brother’s wife!” So Herodias had it in for John. She wanted to kill him, but she couldn’t. This was because Herod respected John. He regarded him as a righteous and holy person, so he protected him. John’s words greatly confused Herod, yet he enjoyed listening to him.’
** you do not have permission to see this link **
‘Herod had arrested John, bound him, and put him in prison because of Herodias, the wife of Herod’s brother Philip. That’s because John told Herod, “It’s against the law for you to marry her.” Although Herod wanted to kill him, he feared the crowd because they thought John was a prophet.’
** you do not have permission to see this link **
‘In the fifteenth year of the rule of the emperor Tiberius—when Pontius Pilate was governor over Judea and Herod was ruler over Galilee, his brother Philip was ruler over Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was ruler over Abilene, during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas—God’s word came to John son of Zechariah in the wilderness …. Herod the ruler had been criticized harshly by John because of Herodias, Herod’s brother’s wife, and because of all the evil he had done. He added this to the list of his evil deeds: he locked John up in prison.’
Turning now to the late first century Jewish historian Josephus, in his Jewish Antiquities (18.5.2.116-119 [or Josephus 1999, p. 595]) Josephus states the following:
‘Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod’s army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist: for Herod killed him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and so to come to baptism … Now when [many] others came in crowds about him, for they were very greatly moved [or pleased] by hearing his words, Herod, who feared lest the great influence John had over the people might put it into his power and inclination to raise a rebellion (for they seemed ready to do anything he should advise), thought it best, by putting him to death, to prevent any mischief he might cause, and not bring himself into difficulties, by sparing a man who might make him repent of it when it would be too late. Accordingly he was sent a prisoner, out of Herod’s suspicious temper, to Macherus … and was there put to death. Now the Jews had an opinion that the destruction of this army was sent as a punishment upon Herod, and a mark of God’s displeasure to him.’
Bonus question: And what about Mark chapter 6 verses 21 to 20 and Matthew chapter 14 verses 6 to 12 (the verses following those listed in the topic title within both the Markan gospel and Matthean gospel)? Do people on this discussion forum consider the verses, in both the Markan and the Matthean gospel, regarding the Herod-delighting dance by Herodias’ daughter at one of Herod’s birthday party leading to the request for the beheading of John the Baptist to be historically truthful?
New Testament scholar Mark L. Strauss (2015, p. 29, emphasis mine) writes the following in his book Jesus Behaving Badly: The Puzzling Paradoxes of the Man from Galilee:
‘John the Baptist … dressed in animal skins with a leather belt around his waist, recalling Elijah and the prophets of old. He withdrew to the desert like a hermit, living off the land by eating locusts and honey … His message was a warning of a fiery judgment that was coming to consume the enemies of God. The agent of this judgement would be God’s Messiah – “the coming One.”
John might have been dismissed as a harmless eccentric, except for the fact that many people were following him. Herod Antipas, son of Herod the Great and tetrach of Galilee and Perea, became concerned. According to Josephus this concern resulted from John’s growing popularity. The Gospels cite a more specific reason: John had denounced Herod’s affair with his brother’s wife, Herodias, whom he had married after divorcing his first wife. Herod had John arrested and thrown in prison (Mt 14:3-5//Mk 6:17-20).‘
[Note: I do not want the direct presence of a ‘Philip’ in Matthew and Mark but not in Luke chapter 3 verses 19-20 to be the focus of this discussion. But see Hoehner 1972, p. 136 [emphasis mine] who states, after looking at various explanations proposed for explaining the difference between the first two synoptic gospels and Josephus, that ‘In conclusion, there is no over-riding reason for not considering the Herod of Josephus and the Philip of Matthew and Mark to be one and the same person. In fact, to do otherwise would seem to create inextricable confusion. To say that because Josephus mentions Herod, and the Gospels Philip, one of them must be wrong, may be the easiest solution to the problem but hardly the most cogent.‘ Hoehner (1972) appears to be, in part, referring at Josephus’ Jewish Antiquities at 18.5.1.109-115 immediately before the Josephus passage quoted above which appears to mention a number of different Herods one of which might have had the name Philip but for which Josephus in his Jewish Antiquities simply chooses to describe as another ‘Herod’.]
Rather, what I want to discuss is whether or not people on this discussion forum consider the synoptic gospel presentations of Antipas’ personal reasons for throwing John the Baptist in prison as basically historically accurate given that we also have words from Josephus highlighting Antipas’ political concerns. The personal reason being that John the Baptist had condemned Herod’s relationship with Herodias. Is that historically accurate? Do you think Antipas had personal reasons for what was done to John the Baptist along with any ancient Roman political concerns it might have addressed for him?
Hoehner (1972, pp. 136-145) states his very influential book on the topic of Herod Antipas as a historical figure Herod Antipas: A Contemporary of Jesus Christ that
‘Both the evangelists and Josephus state Antipas’ motives for John’s imprisonment. Josephus’ account is brief. He indicates that Antipas feared John’s hold upon the people whom whom he greatly incited to the point of sedition. Hence, Antipas thought it politically expedient to strike at the root of the matter before an uprising occurred. Consequently, John was imprisoned at Macherus and there put to death.
The evangelists, on the other hand, give an entirely different account of Antipas’ motives for imprisoning John. According to them, it was because John had denounced the marriage of Antipas and Herodias as being contrary to the Law, as indeed it was since Herodias had already been married to Antipas’ half-brother. In addition to this, she had divorced her former husband, which however, although forbidden by Jewish Law, was allowed by Roman law … As a a result John was imprisoned and later put to death.
Although the two accounts differ greatly, the divergence is not so great as may appear at first sight … the evangelists and Josephus are reporting the same incident from different angles. The former was interested in personal relationships and the cause of John’s death; the latter in political causes and effects. Both accounts are necessary in order to get the full picture.’
___
It is my conclusion, based on my reading of the literature and sources (a small sample of which is represented here, particularly Hoehner [1972], the synoptic gospels, and Josephus’ Jewish Antiquities), that – as far as this topic is concerned – the synoptic gospels Matthew/Mark/Luke and Josephus’ Jewish Antiquities are complementary accounts of Antipas and John the Baptist, and all highly valuable as historical sources. It is almost too good to be true (and greatly appreciated from my point of view!) that both the Markan and Matthean gospels have managed to provide readers with such information regarding what Herodias and her daughter did around the time of one of Herod’s birthday parties.
References:
** you do not have permission to see this link **.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Well I’m not an academic so there is a real sense in which I’m not qualified to have an opinion, but based on some 30 years of reading widely (and I hope deeply) in the field I have a take, since you asked.
I think the Salome thing is probably a fantasy (but a great story) but it’s very possible that John’s criticism of Herod’s marriage is what got him killed. And there is a nice overlap actually between the gospel accounts and Josephus. The war that Herod lost for which Josephus claims some Jews credited divine punishment because of the murder of John was against the Nabateans. The ruler of Nabatea was the father of the wife who Herod dumped in favor of the wife of his still living brother! It’s entirely plausible that Herod feared John’s popularity (Josephus clearly thinks John is more important than Jesus and devotes more space to him) and John’s criticism of Herod’s bad political marriage was the proverbial straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back.
John is an endlessly fascinating figure. The gospel sources are clearly embarrassed by him but are forced to deal with him because obviously there was some relationship between John and Jesus that they have to account for. And you can see as we get later and later in the tradition how an effort is made to minimize John’s role. What was the relationship? Was Jesus a disciple of John who “went solo” after John’s death?
The best books I’ve read on John are Robert Webb’s JOHN THE BAPTIZER and Joan Taylor’s THE IMMERSER: JOHN THE BAPTIST WITHIN SECOND TEMPLE JUDAISM. They don’t always agree and Taylor is a bit too enamored with the Jesus Seminar for my taste but excellent works on the subject.
Prof Ehrman informs that Joel Marcus, responsible for the superb two volume Anchor Bible commentary on MARK, is preparing a book on John. Looking forward to that.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
2 Guest(s)
