So I just finished Dr. Ehrman’s (awesome) Heaven and Hell book. In it, it is suggested that the historical Jesus may have favored a “works” based algorithm for determining who gets into the kingdom when the Son of Man arrives. As Dr. Ehrman points out, in Matthew 24/25, there’s a lot said about being ready (bridesmaids), making good use of your God-given talents (10 talents) and being kind/hospitable especially to those in need (sheep and goats). But there’s next to nothing said about “believing” in Jesus as the Son of Man/Messiah being the “way” to get in the door.
I’ve been taught traditionally that the “faith alone” idea was a Pauline invention developed largely as a way to reassure his new largely gentile churches that they didn’t have to follow Jewish law. James may or may not have agreed.
I’m not Paul’s biggest fan though and much more interested in what the historical Jesus did/did not say/think about the issue – how do I reconcile the Synoptics with the Gospel of John on this one. I get that the preamble may be poetry added later and that it’s definitely a different/later theology than is espoused in the Synoptics – but in John you get things like Jesus supposedly saying Chapter 14:6 (I am the way the truth and the light no one comes to the father except through me). Is there any evidence/reason/evidence to suggest the real, historical Jesus would have ever said anything like this? Or even had a concept of salvation by faith alone?
Robert said
Jn 14,6 is almost certainly not a statement of the historical Jesus.
Steefen
NET Bible
Jesus replied, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Bible Hub is NOT showing a cross reference in any of the Synoptics–supporting Robert.
Interesting. Churches do not point this out.
Give me a moment to read this thread. … Okay.
Matthew 16: 27
For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his Father and will judge all people according to their deeds is equivalent to:
No one comes to the Father unless I, Son of Man, first person, not third person, judge in favor of that person.
Yes / No (and why not)
I am not sure where the break in Matthew is when Jesus changes from Son of Man first person to Son of Man third person. I would think the change happens once Jesus starts getting his impression that he is going to die. There is happy and proud Jesus (the Son of Man is the one with whom you’re speaking; sight is given to the blind; etc.) Then there is the Jesus who sees the handwriting on the wall.
The whole “son of man” thing is a great point Steefen. Before reading Dr. E, I just assumed (like I think most people do) that the Son of Man was Jesus referring to himself in the 3rd person. When you read Dr. E though, he makes a pretty good case (especially in his work about “how Jesus became God”) that the historical Jesus believed that the Son of Man (Daniel reference obviously) was coming as a cosmic judge of the universe.
Your point about the shift from 3rd to 1st person is super interesting to me – and its 100% true. Sometimes its 3rd person, sometimes its 1st person. Whether the historical Jesus made this shift or others (read: original authors or subsequent scribes/translators) made it for him, is a key question. I think Dr. E makes a good case about how it certainly could have been later authors/scribes/translators. I have never thought about your idea – that the historical Jesus made the switch when he saw the writing on the wall – I think that’s an interesting idea. Not 100% sure I see how you get from “I know I’m going to be arrested and likely put to death” to “I should start referring to and claiming to be the Son of Man” but I’d love your thoughts.
Since the Gospels were written 40-60 years AFTER his death, based on oral tradition, I think we can definitely agree there is plenty of room for error in what “person tense” the historical Jesus used. Whether HE viewed himself as the Son of Man or someone sent to warn others that the Son of Man was coming – THAT is an infinitely more important question.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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