Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
How Do We Know?
Avatar
kevinkrause

1 Posts
(Offline)
1
January 20, 2025 - 2:18 pm

I understand that the only manuscripts of the gospels that we have are copies of copies of copies, etc. That being said, considering we don’t have any originals, how do we know what language the original manuscripts were written in? Based on listening to and reading Dr. Ehrman, I understand that it is Greek, but I’m not clear on how we know that. Thanks!

Avatar
Porphyry

1885 Posts
(Offline)
2
January 20, 2025 - 3:15 pm

1) Usually there are traces of the original language left in a translation: idioms that are normal in the original language but sound foreign in the target language (if you read a translation of the Psalms, it is still obviously foreign even when you read them in your own language), or wordplay that can’t be translated, or passages that make little sense in translation but when translated back into the original language suddenly make perfect sense or take on another level of meaning, or other such cases were the original language leaves traces (some subtle, some obvious) in the translation. There is very little of that to be found in the gospels (and what little there is is generally in sayings that likely are translations of older Aramaic saying).

2) Specifically with respect to the synoptics–the verbatim copying isn’t easily reconcilable with them being translations.

Avatar
Colin Milton

1142 Posts
(Offline)
3
January 25, 2025 - 3:36 pm

I thought it was Coptic Greek. (Egyptian)

That’s where the sigma Σ becomes a sigma C.

Avatar
Colin Milton

1142 Posts
(Offline)
4
January 25, 2025 - 3:48 pm

You won’t necessarily know anything with absolute certainty in great detail on this Earth unless you had personally experienced the events, and even then you might come to question your own recollection of the events as time goes on.

Avatar
Colin Milton

1142 Posts
(Offline)
5
January 25, 2025 - 4:15 pm

The texts are dated back according to appearance and an iffy scientific method called paleography.

If it looks really old and isn’t written in cursive style Greek, well it might be older than 1000 years ago because cursive minuscule Greek wasn’t invented until around 1000 years ago. 🤷‍♂️

Myself, I supposedly have a single page, a leaf, from a real first edition 1611 KJV that’s certified dated to around 350 years old that came included with a newly printed facsimile of the entire original print 1611 KJV. I also have several other Bibles that around 100 years old now.
I can’t tell a difference based on appearance; less than 300 years difference.

Avatar
Porphyry

1885 Posts
(Offline)
6
January 25, 2025 - 4:26 pm

The texts are dated back according to appearance and an iffy scientific method called paleography.

Kevin was asking about the language of the originals. not the dates of the copies.

If it looks really old and isn’t written in cursive style Greek, well it might be older than 1000 years ago because cursive minuscule Greek wasn’t invented until around 1000 years ago.

Paleography is necessarily imprecise, but it is a hell of a lot more precise than that description lets on. But to understand it, you need to study it, and spend a lot of time examining manuscripts with known dates.

Myself, I supposedly have a single page, a leaf, from a real first edition 1611 KJV that’s certified dated to around 350 years old that came included with a newly printed facsimile of the entire original print 1611 KJV. I also have several other Bibles that around 100 years old now. I can’t tell a difference based on appearance; less than 300 years difference.

Printed books are a completely different beast than hand-written books.

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7852
Stephen: 4676
Porphyry: 1885
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1526
BJH1960: 1280
brenmcg: 1184
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
djw30
GHagen
Claritas
Stephen Moruzzi
Daddo
markweth
davidbdamon
jacobb64
Mwinter
Sodadog
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2628
Posts: 47015

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 66021
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online: BJH1960
Guest(s) 32
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)