Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
How many anointings by a woman did Jesus receive?
Avatar
Stratovaari

6 Posts
(Offline)
1
February 23, 2024 - 9:13 am

When you compare the details of the four anointing stories, it seems that they are actually versions of the one and same story.

There are only minor differences in the stories of Mark and Matthew. The place, the date, the sequence of events and what was said are almost identical in Mark and Matthew. John’s story shares some evident similarities with Mark and Mathew but also some with Luke.

An interesting detail is the price estimate given by the disapproving guests in Mark’s Gospel and Judas Iscariot in John’s account for the mentioned nard oil, i.e. at least 300 denarii. Same price. Matthew and Luke do not mention this price. Where did John get it?

The location of anointing is not mentioned in Luke’s story, but based on the previous and following stories, this too takes place in Galilee. The host’s name is also the same, i.e. Simon. And the date of the event is different.

In the story of Mark and Matthew, the woman anoints Jesus’ head with nard oil, while in the later stories of Luke and John, the woman anoints Jesus’ feet, head not mentioned. (Were the guests at the table too drunk from the good wine that they did not distinguish which end was anointed?)

In the story of Matthew and Mark, we are in the home of the leper Simon, who was healed by Jesus. Luke’s story also takes place in Simon’s home, but he is mentioned as a Pharisee. Different Simon or different story tradition?

The words of Jesus in the latter part of John’s story are similar in structure and content to those in Mark and Matthew.
– Jesus reprimands those who resent the woman (Mark 14.6, Matt. 26:10, John 12:7
– Jesus said: “For you will always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me!”
– Jesus said head Mark. 14:7, Matt 26:12) or the anointing of the feet (John 12:7) for his burial.

In the Gospel of Luke, there is a passage that is not found other stories when Jesus addresses the host of the table, the Pharisee Simon, who in his thoughts resented the sinful woman who anointed Jesus’ feet.

From the overlapping of similarities and differences in stories, we can draw the conclusion all these four stories are actually one and the same story that has transformed into three versions (1. Mark & Matthew, 2. Luke and 3. John) during the approx. 30 years that probably passed from the first to the last.

Thus, the mentions of Martha, Mary and Lazarus in the later story version of John are later additions. But the gist of the story is the same. The same applies to Luke’s version, which was also written later than Mark’s Gospel, based on earlier written accounts and accounts of ”eyewitnesses and servants of the word ”, as it is written at the beginning of Luke’s Gospel.

Avatar
Chess Jurist

76 Posts
(Offline)
2
February 23, 2024 - 11:25 am

Excellent analysis, Stratovaari. Thanks for that.

From my perspective, this likely is one tradition that found multiple expressions in the NT.

Did Mark’s author invent it from whole cloth or pass on a tradition that preceded his text?

In other words, did something like it even happen at all?

Avatar
Porphyry

1852 Posts
(Offline)
3
February 23, 2024 - 1:11 pm

I certainly agree that there was some one source behind all four accounts.

As to Chess Jursit’s question about whether it was invented by Mark or whether it reaches back further, perhaps even to an historical event–I’m inclined to think it does go back to a real event. I think this because it seems to me the events in Jerusalem leading up to the crucifixion tell a coherent and plausible story even though the evangelists were eager to reinterpret those events. In this event, we have Jesus being anointed, in a way that is easily taken as messianic, in a secret ceremony with his followers. Immediately following this, Judas turns sides.

I continue to think that the gospels are theological reinterpretations of a Jesus who in fact went to Jerusalem, with his disciples, fully expecting to emerge as an earthly king, and this event fits the narrative quite well.

Avatar
Stephen
4602 Posts
(Offline)
4
February 23, 2024 - 1:55 pm

Has anyone noticed that Judas’ betrayal follows immediately after this episode in Mark? (Matthew follows Mark.) Perhaps Mark intended his audience to make the connection? John of course does make the connection and even places the grumbling of the disciples in Judas’ own mouth. Did Mark intend Jesus’ statement about the poor being with us always to be the moment when Judas doubted? How are we to interpret Jesus’ comment?

The other aspect that strikes me in John’s account is how erotic it could be for a woman to dry Jesus’ feet with her hair. Think about it.

I suspect this episode is a Markan invention because it presupposes a knowledge of Jesus’ fate and the existence of Mark’s text.

She has done what she could; she has anointed my body beforehand for its burial. Truly I tell you, wherever the good news is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be told in remembrance of her.

Avatar
Steefen
7786 Posts
(Offline)
5
February 23, 2024 - 8:57 pm

Stratovaari
The location of anointing is not mentioned in Luke’s story, but based on the previous and following stories, this too takes place in Galilee. The host’s name is also the same, i.e. Simon. And the date of the event is different.

Steefen
Interesting. I thought the anointing happened during Holy Week and therefore in Jerusalem or where he stayed or visited during Holy week.

The anointings of Jesus’s head or feet are events recorded in the four gospels. The account in Matthew 26, Mark 14, and John 12 takes place on the Holy Wednesday of Holy Week at the house of Simon the Leper in Bethany, a village in Judaea on the southeastern slope of the Mount of Olives.

The event in Luke features an unnamed sinful woman, and is in the northern region, as Luke 7 indicates Jesus was ministering in the northern regions of Nain and Capernaum.

** you do not have permission to see this link **

= = =

Did Ehrman mention the differing accounts in any of his trade paperback books?

Avatar
Robert
7123 Posts
(Offline)
6
February 24, 2024 - 1:09 pm
Avatar
Chess Jurist

76 Posts
(Offline)
7
February 24, 2024 - 11:18 pm

I side with Stephen here. But there’s no right answer; the tradition could easily have historical roots despite my doubt.

Thanks everyone.

Avatar
Stratovaari

6 Posts
(Offline)
8
February 26, 2024 - 5:53 pm

Thanks for comments.

Hstorical roots require historical evidence. There is none. I think we can only have opinions about whether the event or events really happened. It is impossible to prove that this a witnesses story of a real event. For me, it is interesting to see how the story has probably developed in different contexts and what kind of relationship the stories have with each other. I think this story gives a useful glimpse of how the gospel narratives have developed.

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7786
Stephen: 4602
Porphyry: 1852
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1424
BJH1960: 1205
brenmcg: 1184
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
Auntiejack56
giventerry
brokinrhythm
Thurly
dsorrent7
iam.vernon.b.rose
israelam
Abw2026
StephenJ
AnnaH
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2616
Posts: 46472

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 65923
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online: Jill_L, Tjalling
Guest(s) 16
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)