Bart:
If there is an all-powerful and loving God in this world, why is there so much excruciating pain and unspeakable suffering?
The problem of suffering became for me the problem of faith.
…continuing to wrestle with the problem, about nine or ten years ago I finally admitted defeat,
came to realize that I could no longer believe in the God of my tradition,
and acknowledged that I was an agnostic: I don’t “know” if there is a God;
but I think that if there is one, he certainly isn’t the one proclaimed by the Judeo-Christian tradition [Christianity, for one],
the one who is actively and powerfully involved in this world.
And so I stopped going to church.
= = = = =
Bart’s Former Expectation:
There is an all-powerful and loving God in this world.
Steefen:
You got that idea from Jesus and Christianity. If not, where did you get that?
Hebrew Apocalypticism is a failed hypothesis.
The prophets of Hebrew Apocalypticism are false prophets.
“If there is a God, he certainly is not the one proclaimed by Judeo-Christian tradition.”
In addition to Hebrew Apocalypticism being a failed hope and a failed hypothesis,
Temple Judaism was destroyed.
Both in Hebrew myths and Sumerian myths, the gods tried to kill all humans. Humans and their sinful ways are a cause for suffering. But, if God gives his Son, God will stop suffering caused by geology and the nature of humanity: God will save believers and stop the nature of Earth and humanity.
Although the Bible insinuates that the Creator is God, the Elohim are not the Creator of the Universe.
The geographical/spatial scope of God in the Bible is Ancient Canaan, not the Solar System (4.6 billion years), not the Galaxy (13.6 billion years), not the Local Group, not the Laniakea Cluster, not the Universe (13.8 billion years) overseeing an estimate of 100 sextillion stars/solar systems and 200 sextillion planets without suffering.
Limit God to the Earth, 4.5 billion years, asteroids hit us.
The point of view I find mysterious is that of so-called “Universalists”, who think that in the end everyone will be saved. Sounds merciful enough but what is the purpose of all this suffering in the meantime then? If everyone will be saved eventually why not just be done with it?

Theories? Since I can’t do any miracles myself or through God; I claim no more spiritual authority than anyone else about the matter of it all.
Humans become closer and more empathetic because of suffering. A lot of the time anyways. There is however the occasional psychopath(people who are extremely violent, extremely self centered against all society, and extremely empathetic to everyone.)
The attempt to change the heart of mankind away from being naturally evil to it being naturally good.
I suppose that first to be saved, one must first be forgiven. And why not interpret John 1:29 with Luke 23:34 as meaning the sins of the world have been forgiven already. (?) Suffering causes repentance, and from a biblical perspective I see forgiveness and salvation as completely distinct from eternal life. Meaning, mankind has already been forgiven. If you’re still alive, you have salvation. Forgiveness and salvation are by grace, hence not a choice. Eternal life however is a matter of belief, and is a choice.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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