Mark 15: 32
Matthew 1: 1
Matthew 11: 3
Matthew 16: 16
Matthew 17: 3
John 1: 41
John 4: 25-26
John 20: 31
If Jesus was a New Moses, he was not as militaristic as Moses fr Chapter 21 of Numbers into Deuteronomy. Jesus was not that Messiah.
The Moses of the book of Exodus is different from the Moses of Numbers Chapter 21 into Deuteronomy.
JESUS WAS NOT THE SUCCESSFUL MILITARISTIC WAR LORD MOSES WAS–NUMBERS 21 INTO DEUTERONOMY.
The following video should start at 25:29.
t=1529
The Jew that would not die. Jewson the evil King. They killed him 7 times but he keeps resurrecting from the dead. Jewson even betrayed and conquered his own country in his conquests to become King. Jewson wrote many books about himself being one of the Elohim who created the world. Jewson was an evil King.
There may be a step in between.
The story of Elisha actually reuses and changes many events from the Moses-Jesus narrative.
Elisha, for example, feeds a multitude in a manner similar to Numbers 11. In both cases there is a complaint that the food available will never feed the multitude, and in both cases there is actually food left over. It is Elisha that the Jesus of Nazareth tales use in his feeding of the multitude.
-Moses cures water 3 days after crossing the Red Sea. Elisha cures water at Jericho 3 days after crossing the Jordan River.
Elisha in 2 kings chapter 3, excluding the she bears at Bethel, reuses Numbers 20-22, excluding the bronze serpent.
-At the waters of Meribah, the people and animals are going to perish without water, same as the army and its animals of the three kings.
-Moses is denied passage through Edom, then goes around Moab to get at Sihon and Og. The three kings go through the wilderness of Edom to get to Moab
-The people find water at the wells of YHWH. YHWH fills pools with water miraculously for the three kings.
-The kings call for a prophet of YHWH, Elisha. Balak calls for a prophet of YHWH, Balaam.
-The prophet is not fully committed to helping in both cases.
The Elisha story about capturing the foreign army is where we really see the difference you speak of, though. Also the following chapter seems to resolve a bad situation, a siege of Samaria, without a military leader for Israel being victorious.
In 2 Kings 6 has the story where Elisha is giving early warnings of Ben-Hadad’s planned attacks, perhaps by supernatural knowledge of some sort. Ben-Hadad’s figures this out and surrounds the town that Elisha lived in. Elisha blinds the Aramean army and tells them (like Obi wan Kenobi and the droids) that they are in the wrong town. Elisha leads them into Samaria, still blind, and the king of Israel asks if he should kill them. Elisha says it would not be appropriate, has the army fed and given water, and sends them home.
This inverts the powerful message of total destruction of Phinehas against Midian or Joshua against most cities as told in the Moses-Jesus narratives.
Mark uses a LOT of the Elijah-Elisha narrative to create his own prophet-Jesus narrative. The Elijah-Elisha narrative is mostly reused, and often inverted, Moses-Jesus narrative.
Elisha is where the transition occurs.
So both Moses and Elijah are promised a military style leader at Mount Horeb. Both Moses and Elijah die just east of the Jordan, across from Jericho. Both Jesus son of Nun and Elisha receive the spirit there.
Yet Elisha is not militant. Look at 1 Kings 19, YHWH promises an Elisha to kill those left by Jehu (who killed those left by Hazael). This version of Elisha no longer exists.
I do think Elisha was rewritten. Originally, the promises of YHWH to Elijah came true (currently, almost none of them came true). The new Elisha, the one we currently read, is a healer. This concept is introduced as Elisha cures the water in Jericho, 3 days after parting the Jordan. When Moses parted the Red Sea, 3 days later he healed water to the Israelites could drink. YHWH told Moses that the people would never suffere the dieases or troubles of Egypt, “for I am the Lord who heals you” Exodus 15:26.
And so Elisha, for whatever reason is a healer.
In 2 Kings 4, Elisha raises the dead.
In 1 Kings 18 Elisha slaughters the prophets of Baal.
This is a big problem for the peaceful Jesus Messiah story because the return of Elijah is part of it. Elijah and Elisha work together and Elisha is at war against the prophets of Baal. John the Baptist is supposed to be the return of Elijah in the NT. Matthew 11:14. New translations might deliberately change that to “who is to come” because “who was to come” doesn’t work well with Revelation being a prophecy still waiting to happen.
So who is Elisha? (James and John, the sons of thunder Luke 9:54)
Breaking the rules of scholar and historian methods of reading like a computer TURING TEST, which explains why the question of authorship of NT is a thing, yet there is the question of who is the historical Jesus and the historical Paul.
Everything can be answered by that the crucifixion was a myth. The Romans and Sanhedrin faked the death of Jesus. Jesus agreed to betray his own quest to become King of the Jews to escape death. Jesus kills Saul of Tarsus and has to flee like Moses after he killed the Egyptian. Jesus is Paul. Jesus took on a fake identity to escape the murder charges by reason that Saul was not dead because Saul is Paul.
Jesus:Paul is like the Obama Bin Laden situation. Not very easy to find someone out there and he’s a threat to national security. Maybe he’s dead already. Either way, his group is causing problems for both Rome and Jerusalem. Is Jesus better Dead or Alive? Neither, he’s better being ressurected from the dead. Jesus:Paul dies everyday. 1 Corinthians 15:31. Those are words of a split personality creating a religion about themself using a false identity. To Jesus:Paul the Christ is the Church he’s creating. To the Church the Christ is Jesus but they don’t know that Paul is Jesus. Peter, James and John know but they can’t kick him out of the Church. They’re all already trapped in the crucifixion and resurrection of the dead myth.
Was Mary the Mother of Jesus out there preaching that Jesus was ressurected from the dead?
It’s too late after 4 decades of it all for Jesus:Paul, Peter, James and John to stage a comeback Messiah in Jerusalem during the reign of Nero. They’re all too old by then if they were actually still alive.
That’s how Jewish people are. They write stories and philosophize as though it’s God or evidence of God. Thats why the Bible exists. For Judaism and Christianity, the Bible is God. They created a God for themselves with stories and books.
Eli-JAH killed the prophets of Baal. not EliSHA! In 1 Kings 19, EliJAH was promised someone who would kill all those left by Jehu, who was to kill all those left by Hazael, but it does not work out that way. In fact, almost all of the EliSHA story occurs prior to the Hazael and Jehu promotions to king and subsequent military conquests. Besides which, Jehu does not seem to leave anything for Elisha to kill.
The closes thing to violence Elisha does is curse the 42 youths. This story does not seem to be riffed of the Moses-Jesus narrative, despite the stories immediately before and immediately after having close parallels to the Moses-Jesus narrative. Instead, this story has parallels with Jehu’s bloody termination of everything Ahab. Jehu happens upon and kills 42 youth traveling to visit their kin, the family of Ahab.
In fact, EliSHA not fulfilling the promise to EliJAH inverts one of the main tenets of the Dtr, Histories, that YHWH fulfills his promises. Compare with the ending of Joshua (Jesus) where not one promise made to Moses was dropped, all was completed. This observation is a little too philosophical for me. surely it is a coincidence?
The quote about bringing down fire is also EliJAH, bringing down fire on those sent to ask Baalzebul if the king will survive his fall, in 1 Kings 1. This also forms, imo, the basis for the unforgivable sin in Mark 2.
The sons of thunder, btw, remind me more of another major gospel source, the rebellion of Absalom son of David. David is constantly upset by the antics or suggestions of his nephews, the sons of his sister Zeruiah: Joab, Abishai and Asahel. Especially as Abishai is walking with David, escaping king Absalom’s takeover of Jerusalem. Shimei is cursing David and throwing stones at him, and Abishai offers to end Shimei. David replies that perhaps YHWH will see David’s suffering and count it as righteousness. Later, David will forgive Shimei while crossing the waters of the Jordan.
Elijah is most closely paralleled to John the Baptist, the ‘great prophet’ who baptizes Jesus in the Jordan, where he receives the spirit. Shortly after, John dies, as did Elijah when Elisha received his spirit at the Jordan. (Moses passed the spirit to Jesus son of nun there also).
However, Mark uses the Elijah-Elisha narrative to create the JohnTB-JEsus narrative. Its not always one to one. For example, Mark version of Jesus being tempted is obviously a combination of both times EliJAH fled to the wilderness, chapters 17 and 19. So Jesus thee is modeled on EliJAH.
Also, while 2 Kings 2, used for John baptizing Jesus, with John imitating EliJAH and JEsus imitating EliShA, this same narrative is used for the three times Peter denies Jesus (inverted), with Jesus imitating EliJAH and Peter inverting Elisha. So its not a 1 to 1, character to character type of writing. Its using one narrative to make something completely new, while making it obvious it is based on the prior narrative.
Another parallel is the Jews (Cain) and Jesus (Abel). The two greatest murders of all time, supposedly. Legend has it however that since the Jews are held to such higher moral standards than the rest of the world, that if a Jew ever killed another innocent Jew the angel Michael would destroy the whole entire world the very next day. The probability of Jesus being innocent and killed by the Jews is therefore next to zero.
I don’t think all those are coincidences. Thats how Jews invent new stories. Jesus had to fulfill the Law and Prophets but still be somewhat polytheistic for the Romans and Greeks.
It’s like how the ancient Greek language is very much parallel to the polygamous pagan religions, but Koine Greek is like a new language of Greek paralleled to whatever interpretation of Christianity is considered legal now ever since Christianity and modern scholarship (modern Jews) took over the language and dictionaries. Jesus probably got arrested for being a big pervert. If he was God, the Day of the Lord in Zecharia would be a simple snap of the fingers to accomplish and Jesus could be King David. Most cult leaders are breaking laws. David Koresh is a recent example. The Jews killed Jesus and the Americans killed David Koresh. That’s the way she goes. Usually some type of militant group forms afterwards, like the Oklahoma City bombing and the numerous militia groups like the Bundy militia that took over a bird refuge in Oregon because “the government” , that are all in hiding ever since the January 6 insurrection at the Capital.
Messiah is an anointed person. Usually in a king or high priest ceremony. Christ is the Greek translation, AFAIK.
Son of Man is probably an unwarranted capitalization of human being.
You keep confusing the two separate people – EliJAH and EliSHA.
Mark does not go out of his way to make Jesus a new Moses. He goes out of the way to make Jesus a new Elisha. However, Jesus does things based on both characters.
Matthew makes a big deal of making Jesus into a new Moses. He puts language into the mouth of Jesus that is almost exactly like a phrase of Moses. HOWEVER, Matthew also puts Jesus on mountains, and Moses never spoke from a mountain. Jesus son of Nun, reading the Law, read it on a mountain. This may seem like a small detail, but not to Luke, who has Jesus of Nazareth speaking on a plain, like Moses did in Deuteronomy.
Luke also reaches deeper into Mark’s sources, especially the Elijah-Elisha narrative, and creates even more parallels.
So, each of the narratives seems to be a new version of the original narrative, the Moses-Jesus (son of Nun) narrative.
The word for anointed is not actually used in Mark 14. But the wonderful chapter titles say Jesus anointed at Bethany.
Sounds more like Jesus started tripping balls from whatever oil, drug was poured on his head. Olive oil is not a perfume. Taking large doses of myrrh is not safe. I don’t think it would matter if it was swallowed or not, drugs absorb through the skin too.
I will flip flop on that Jesus was a serial killer, but not on that Jesus was Saul:Paul
Suppose Jesus on trial before Pilate was given two choices.
1) end his teachings and followings. The Sanhedrin wanted them all in prison.
2) if not, then everyone dies under Roman law for insurrection against Caesar.
Jesus chose number 1. The Sanhedrin renames him to Saul of Tarsus to deceive the people that Jesus was crucified. Barabbas the insurrectionist was crucified instead. The Sanhedrin stole his body afterwards and buried it somewhere.
Timothy actually recognizes Saul of Tarsus as Jesus as says the I see the son of man standing.
Jesus turns against both the Sanhedrin and Pilate after Stephen is killed and becomes Paul as a new identity to infiltrate his own church that thinks he was crucified and resurrected from the dead. Runs away to the north and south. Paul is eventually caught and appeals to Caesar. Caesar cannot know that Pilate had let him go back then because then Pilate will be executed for treason, so the official story at the trial is that Jesus was crucified by Pilate and Jesus is not Saul:Paul.
Where does Muhammad come from? Wandering the earth and roaming to and fro upon it? Mecca, Arabia?
Yes and no.
He was from a wealthy pagan family that moved into nearby Tarsus of the Roman Byzantine Empire. There he was educated in Greek and Jewish Christianity, and Arabian, Greek paganism. During the reign of Justinian (6th century) when paganism was outlawed through land confiscation in the Roman Empire, his family was forced out the Empire and they migrated back to Arabia. He didn’t much like anything especially about Judaism, Catholic, and paganism and so went about trying to start a revolution in Arabia to outlaw paganism much the Roman Empire had done. He spoke both Greek and Arabic, with Arabic being his first language, but was educated in the Greek of Judeo Christianity. In that way he was a persecuted Judeo Christian with pagan family history who apostates from everything when he return backs to his homeland.
Acts 21:38, being from nearby Tarsus himself, that was his future plans and dreams.
#focusmyview,
Paul is not possessed by the spirit of Jesus. Paul is Jesus. Paul is the false identity of Jesus so that Caesar, Acts 25:11, doesn’t find out that Pontius Pilate and the Sanhedrin did not actually crucify him. Pilate probably sent false records of the trial and crucifixion back to Rome so they knew about it. If Caesar discovers the truth then everyone is dead or imprisoned for lying to Caesar. Jesus was supposed to aid in imprisoning his own followers to stop a future insurrection after the trial with Pilate but he betrayed that contract after the stoning of Stephen and ran away to Greece. Now both the Sanhedrin and Romans are trying to hunt down “Paul”. They got him, and both Peter and Paul were executed in Rome 64AD by Nero before the Great Fire of Rome. Nero went insane after the fire and wanted all the Christians killed. Lies everywhere.
That’s obviously not what the Bible or Quran says, but that’s what I think really happened.
Moses, Jesus, Muhammad are all founded on lies.
But yes, Paul writes about himself as though he not the Jesus Christ he’s talking about, but he really is and doesn’t want the Church to know because most everybody then thinks that Jesus was crucified and died, was resurrected and had miraculously appeared to Paul years ago in a land far away to walk to. I think only Peter, James and John, knew that he was Jesus. Pontius Pilate and the Sanhedrin alive during the first trial of Jesus were all dead and or didn’t pass on the secret info to anyone.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
1 Guest(s)