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The Marcion hypothesis or Marcionite priority (or priority of the Marcionite Gospel) is a possible solution to the ** you do not have permission to see this link **.
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One, of many, problems with this idea is it supposes that Rome was the source of the early Christian literary tradition, when we know that Egypt was producing volumes of work in the first century and on. Were Roman and Egyptian literary traditions totally isolated from each other? It seems unlikely.
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The lecture is from 2012, book is from 2014, and Klinhardt’s english translation from Dec2020.
What we have from Egypt 1st century?
We don’t know when the Gospel of Thomas was first composed, but late first century to mid-2nd century seems reasonable. Was it composed in Egypt? We know it was certainly known there, and copied. A lot depends on where you stand on Bagnall’s revised dating of early Christian papyri. Whether or not we have actual witnesses to the first century (I would admit we do not, conceding your point) there can be no doubt that Christian community (possibly Jewish Christian) had arisen in Alexandria by the end of the first century, and the tradition that Mark was written there indicates that said society developed a Christian literary tradition contemporary with Marcion (we do have surviving fragments from 2nd century Egypt i.e. P. Ryl. III 457))
Justin Martyr was quoting from some form of early synoptic gospels, or possibly a harmonization, yet he was entirely antagonistic to Marcion and would be unlikely to have embraced Marcion’s gospel. Marcion certainly had his own gospel, and it may well have been a form of Luke, and I am even willing to concede that Marcion may have been the first to compile a selection of Paul’s letters in a volume; I simply cannot see him as being the source of all the synoptic gospels, though the discussion is fascinating.
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BTW google is getting better with Geman translation. And many texts are in English.
My reconstruction of Marcion was caused by naive historical analyzes of his short biography -
that he supposedly gave some money, that it was returned to him and his book collection was not returned,
that it was about theology, and that it was all like a sword duel, already sharpened and sharpened.
Bible studies revolve around the Bible as if no one is aware that the Bible is just an instrument, one of many,
and the goals are very human: to build, to keep control, to defeat others.
Rome began to be ruled by bankers from Callixtus, and its importance resulted from the structure of the empire.
Already in the 3rd century AD, the emperor decided about some conflicts of property ownership taking into
account the priority of the organization managed from Rome. That's what Marcion and this whole
bunch of theologians, Gnostics came for. Christianity is the religion of the empire, just as Mormonism is the
most American religion. Below is the content of a letter written couple weeks before I found Vinzent.
......
I listened to your AeonGR interview about Marcion a couple of times and now I know what I disagree with. Marcion was not Mitt Romney. You are wrong at this point.
I would compare Marciona to Marciel Degollado – both were religious entrepreneurs . Except that Marcion did not want to recognize his place in the hierarchy and therefore he fell as a result of competition, and Maciel had no ambition to move out of in the church structure. One was fought, the other was protected, both were respected.
For the Church, the money brought to him is a grant greater or less. But nothing that evokes long-term respect. On the other hand, people who can carry out impressive huge material projects based on theology are a different class.
Maciel is the Bill Gates of Catholicism. 50b organisation worldwide.
My story about Marcion is this.
Bible scholars see Marcion through the eyes of his enemies, through polemics that are de facto hostile libels and accusations that we cannot verify. And those that we verify are simply untrue.
There is, however, a simple method to view Marcion differently. See his cursory résumé through the prism of common sense.
Marcion was a sea freight forwarder or shipbuilder. He operated in an industry that required logistics talents due to its dispersion in many locations and cooperation with many partners, customers and suppliers. Before he came to Rome, business talents and professional practice were useful to him in creating an effective religious organization equipped with a canon, staff trained on it and know how to set up a local representative office, what to do to make it self-sufficient and profitable as soon as possible. And how to manage the network of these representative offices.
Armed with success in many fields – canon, network of congregations, money, he went to Rome to impress and bewilder the members of the local Christian community. He chose the moment according to the entrepreneur’s criteria: I have a unique, proven product and I’m better than the rest.
An ascetic Big Boss the Winner, a generous man of success, an organizer and leader who stood out against the background of a chatty group of all kinds of theologians, without any practical skills, came to Rome.
Rome welcomed him with open arms. Finally, someone who knows how to organize this boiling pot full of various theological ideas and give action a measurable order and some direction.
Marcion conquered Rome, gaining followers and creating a great army of enemies. The competition could not come to terms with the fact that the game is settled and from now on it will be led by one leader.
And Marcion ultimately lost, because bigger ones than him became interested in the Christian movement, and there are many of them in a large city. The enemies raised funds, copied Marcion’s know-how and began fighting him. Marcion withdrew from Rome, but continued to act so vigorously that he did not cease to be the main threat to Rome. It’s a business decision for once – it was impossible in the capital, too bad, so we operate everywhere else.
Its effectiveness is evidenced by the works of orthodox opponents and the changes in early Christian literature, the appearance of new gospels and letters.
The Roman Conflict of 144 CE was a us-them rivalry, clothed in theological pretense. Theology became a battlefield pending until the beginning of the 4th century. Only the administrative decision of the empire allowed for the closure of the churches of Marcon.
Marcion was attacked by pretenders who united against him because they themselves were too weak to defeat him alone and take his place. Thus, Proto-Orthodox and Proto-Catholics became more open to the ideas of their colleagues and ceased to be so attached to their own ideas. More gospels, more LXX, new interpretations.
With time, they grew so much that they became the greatest Christian sect and a partner to the apparatus of the empire.
The NT canon is largely the result of this first major conflict.
In his activities, Marcion used the corpus of letters from Paul, who himself allegedly created a network of churches before him. None of them survived, if any existed at all. If the letters are to prove the existence of these gatherings, then at best they were fan clubs after Paul’s performances in those locations with which he lost contact after a longer or shorter period of time. Remote management of organizationally primitive communities was difficult in antiquity and missionary activity is not a trip around the world with a few stops. Whoever invented it did not bother to check if such a scheme had a chance to work.
Simply, Paul is a mythical hero, a role model for the missionaries of Marcion and his so-called Letters are their textbook. Previously, no one saw them and they were not propagated individually. Corpus is a textbook
Marcion created a canon, he limited the field of theological interpretations, which was unacceptable from the point of view of other players. And he was not a caliph so that his decision would become law….
Now You can see my personal motivation in the success of Marcion Hypothesis.
Now You can see my personal motivation in the success of Marcion Hypothesis.
Yes and that’s precisely the problem. Your “interpretation” is anachronistic, reading modern perceptions and concerns into the works of these ancient authors whose motivations are completely occluded. Of course if they’re weren’t occluded they could not function as a mirror for our projections.
Jarek said
In his activities, Marcion used the corpus of letters from Paul, who himself allegedly created a network of churches before him. None of them survived, if any existed at all. If the letters are to prove the existence of these gatherings, then at best they were fan clubs after Paul’s performances in those locations with which he lost contact after a longer or shorter period of time. Remote management of organizationally primitive communities was difficult in antiquity and missionary activity is not a trip around the world with a few stops. Whoever invented it did not bother to check if such a scheme had a chance to work.
Simply, Paul is a mythical hero, a role model for the missionaries of Marcion and his so-called Letters are their textbook. Previously, no one saw them and they were not propagated individually. Corpus is a textbook
These are profound statements about Paul; namely that none of the churches he founded survived, “if any existed at all”, and that, in reference to Paul’s letters, “no one saw them and they were not propagated individually”. If Paul’s letters were not in circulation, or at least extant in the churches they were addressed to, then how was Marcion able to get his hands on them nearly 80 years after Paul’s death? As to churches Paul founded not existing; what do you base this on?
Robert said
Jarek said
Bible scholars see Marcion through the eyes of his enemies, through polemics that are de facto hostile libels and accusations that we cannot verify. And those that we verify are simply untrue. …
Now You can see my personal motivation in the success of Marcion Hypothesis.
Yes, your admitted mistrust of scholarship and the process of scholarly consensus is a clear bias.
Critical scholars do not simply see Marcion through the eyes of his enemies. They read his enemies very critically. Some fundamentalist or non-critical ‘scholars’ may do this, but we cannot consider them to be critical scholars.
That was a quotation from Judith Lieu lecture … I didn’t admit mistrust of anything. I have full confidence in biblical scholars for their expertise in all areas in which they have achieved success or degrees. Unfortunately, few of them have the concept and experience of entrepreneurship, competition, product placement, market requirement and politics. An explanation of the development of early Christian literature without this type of analysis will always be questionable
Stephen said
Now You can see my personal motivation in the success of Marcion Hypothesis.Yes and that’s precisely the problem. Your “interpretation” is anachronistic, reading modern perceptions and concerns into the works of these ancient authors whose motivations are completely occluded. Of course if they’re weren’t occluded they could not function as a mirror for our projections.
Maybe so.
Norman Russell said
Jarek saidIn his activities, Marcion used the corpus of letters from Paul, who himself allegedly created a network of churches before him. None of them survived, if any existed at all. If the letters are to prove the existence of these gatherings, then at best they were fan clubs after Paul’s performances in those locations with which he lost contact after a longer or shorter period of time. Remote management of organizationally primitive communities was difficult in antiquity and missionary activity is not a trip around the world with a few stops. Whoever invented it did not bother to check if such a scheme had a chance to work.
Simply, Paul is a mythical hero, a role model for the missionaries of Marcion and his so-called Letters are their textbook. Previously, no one saw them and they were not propagated individually. Corpus is a textbook
These are profound statements about Paul; namely that none of the churches he founded survived, “if any existed at all”, and that, in reference to Paul’s letters, “no one saw them and they were not propagated individually”. If Paul’s letters were not in circulation, or at least extant in the churches they were addressed to, then how was Marcion able to get his hands on them nearly 80 years after Paul’s death? As to churches Paul founded not existing; what do you base this on?
Short fragment from Bart
Only few minutes about letters a important. After this Bart’s performance, let’s see what we have. After 80 years, Marcion provided all of Paul’s authentic letters known to us. No one else found anything else to come from the great apostle. And this is completely incomprehensible in all of this. Marcion has proved to be 100% successful in his searches in areas including Greece, Asia Minor and Rome. He found all the remnants of Paul’s legacy, Bart claims he wrote dozens of letters. No one from Corinth or Rome has been lucky enough to find something unique, different, but equally authentic. And we’re talking about the works of a guy who takes up half the NT.
Robert said
Jarek said
That was a quotation from Judith Lieu lecture … I didn’t admit mistrust of anything. I have full confidence in biblical scholars for their expertise in all areas in which they have achieved success or degrees. Unfortunately, few of them have the concept and experience of entrepreneurship, competition, product placement, market requirement and politics. An explanation of the development of early Christian literature without this type of analysis will always be questionable
What quote from Judith Lieu are you referencing?
Bible scholars see Marcion through the eyes of his enemies, through polemics
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert