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Mark 4:35-41 and Matthew 8:23-27
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IR_2017

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June 5, 2021 - 11:59 am

A great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that the boat was already being swamped. 38 But he was in the stern, asleep on the cushion; and they woke him up and said to him, “Teacher, do you not care that we are perishing?” 39 He woke up and rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, “Peace! Be still!” Then the wind ceased, and there was a dead calm. 40 He said to them, “Why are you afraid? Have you still no faith?” 41 

 

“Teacher, do you not care that we are perishing?”

what does this mean? “do you not care that we are all gonna die, including you, master?” 

 

He woke up and rebuked the wind”

what does this mean? 

“behave yourself!” ? 

 

John Kessler wrote :

 

I think that pp. 2-3 of Brian Carrier’s Earthquakes and Eschatology in the Gospel According to Matthew is enlightening:

[T]he strong lexical tie between [Matthew] 28:2 (καὶ ἰδοὺ σεισμὸς ἐγένετο μέγας) and [Matthew] 8:24 (καὶ ἰδοὺ σεισμὸς μέγας ἐγένετο) suggests that the two passages should be taken together, thereby adding another link between the quake at 28:2 and the christological theme. The unique seismic motif running through Matthew is therefore not a peripheral feature; rather, it lies at the very heart of the Gospel. There is yet another observation that betrays an intentionality behind Matthew’s unique seismic language: so great is his proclivity for earthquake imagery that he almost appears to have forced a σεισμός into the storm stilling context. Matthew refers to the event on the Sea of Galilee as a σεισμὸς μεγάς, a “great shaking” or a “great earthquake” (8:24). However, there is little in the scene to suggest that a seismic phenomenon is in view. While the boat containing Jesus and the disciples is tossed about, it is by waves rather than tremors. Granted, earthquakes do occur frequently in the Jordan Rift Valley, and some have even generated tsunamis in the Dead Sea or the Sea of Galilee. But even if an earthquake had occurred and generated the threatening waves, it is unlikely that such an event would also create wind, and Matthew makes it clear that pneumatic gusts are a central feature of the maritime chaos (8:26–27). Moreover, when Jesus puts an end to the crisis, he does so by silencing the wind and the waves, not the shaking of the earth (8:26, 27). Thus, a sea storm would appear a far more fitting description for the source of the disciples’ terror than an earthquake. Indeed, this is precisely how the event is described in both Mark and Luke; they state that it is a λαῖλαψ ἀνέμου (literally, “a windstorm” or “a hurricane of wind”) that descends on the Sea of Galilee. Matthew’s redacted use of σεισμός therefore does not appear a good fit for the context if taken at face value.

 

I’ll  repeat a question which was asked before :

 

why many if not most translators of Matthew’s gospel render σεισμὸς as “windstorm” or similar? Are English translators redacting Matthew to conform better to Mark/Luke’s depiction, and if so, does this not obscure the prominence of seismic imagery throughout Matthew’s gospel, perhaps as signs of the eschaton (as in Matt 24:7)?

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Robert
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June 5, 2021 - 8:00 pm
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IR_2017

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June 5, 2021 - 8:37 pm

It is the same word used to rebuke demons (or Peter when he is called Satan), perhaps indicating the typical apocalyptic belief that demons were ruling over this current world order.

so from the markan perspective the storm, winds ect are not of divine origin or from the divine god, but from entities such as demons?
 
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Robert
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June 5, 2021 - 9:33 pm
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Stephen
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June 5, 2021 - 10:57 pm

Iskander Robertson said

It is the same word used to rebuke demons (or Peter when he is called Satan), perhaps indicating the typical apocalyptic belief that demons were ruling over this current world order.

so from the markan perspective the storm, winds ect are not of divine origin or from the divine god, but from entities such as demons?
 

  

** you do not have permission to see this link ** you may find interesting.

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IR_2017

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June 6, 2021 - 9:05 am

from matthews version, we read :

 

Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a dead calm.

 

Robert said :

Matthew likes earthquakes,

 

question : why didn he say that the quakes were rebuked ? 

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Robert
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June 6, 2021 - 9:58 am
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brenmcg

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June 8, 2021 - 6:22 pm

“seismos” doesn’t mean earthquake.

It just means quake or tremor or shaking or commotion or disturbance.

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