Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
Mark. Departure from using Elisha shows what about his particular hero, Jesus?
Avatar
FocusMyView

566 Posts
(Offline)
1
July 4, 2021 - 8:22 am

Mark reuses a lot of themes from Elisha. His Jesus usually does miracles bigger and better. Elisha crossed the Jordan on dry land. Jesus walked on the water itself. Elisha feeds 100. Jesus feeds 5000. There are many similarities in their miracles. But one aspect is very different.

Elisha encounters a widow with children, about to sell her children into slavery because she cannot afford to pay her bills. He multiplies the meager amount of oil she does have so that she can sell it to pay her bills. Mark’s Jesus does something different that completely changes the course of events. He accepts an anointing of oil. Those in attendance said the oil could have been sold to raise money for widows. Mark is still using the Elisha motif here, as he has done in so many places. The comparison is stark, and the Jesus of Mark is unapologetic.

I would propose that Mark disagrees with Jesus on this point because Mark has his downfall begin here. It is an odd defense that Mark gives to Jesus for accepting the anointing. Jesus is an apocapyltic preacher. End is coming. This generation will see the end. His defense for the anointing includes “For you always have the poor with you, and you can show kindness to them whenever you wish” which seems to be at odds with his “End is coming” theme. So now the edifice is crumbling. 1) The hero accepts the gift. 2) The widows will have to be without, just this once. 3) Does the hero believe what he has been preaching, that the end is almost upon us? 

THEN Judas goes to the chief priests to betray him. AFTER THAT Judas is offered money upon the completion of the betrayal. Other gospels try to twist the betrayal of Judas into Judas’ greed. Mark however, introduces this twist and puts it squarely on his hero’s one… moment of weakness?? 

Avatar
Robert
7232 Posts
(Offline)
2
July 4, 2021 - 11:28 am
Avatar
FocusMyView

566 Posts
(Offline)
3
July 4, 2021 - 2:38 pm

 Is it really likely that this scene is intended by Mark to portray a tragic flaw in his hero? It’s a thought provoking idea, but I don’t see much basis for it in Mark’s text.

By the way, the anointing scene in Mark is an inclusio with the women going to anoint Jesus after his burial, thus enclosing the passion narrative with two anointing stories and tying quite nicely into other elements of Mark’s larger structure. 

  

Widow? Who said widow? Yes I botched that. Have no idea where that came from. Thanks. I still think considering how many Elisha themes Mark uses that he must have known about the multiplying of oil compared to the accepting of anointment that his own followers denounced as expensive. 

The message about Judas being betrayed by Jesus still seems to stand. Like you said with that “inclusio” comment, this is the beginning of the end for Jesus. Whether its a flaw or its just the fate of being anointed, his end has begun.

Avatar
Stephen
4750 Posts
(Offline)
4
July 7, 2021 - 7:14 pm

FMV I think you’re taking the wrong approach here.  The thing Mark got from the Elijah and Elisha stories is not the specific narrative details but the template of the miraculous folktale about the adventures of Yahweh’s prophets.  

Avatar
FocusMyView

566 Posts
(Offline)
5
July 9, 2021 - 7:55 am

There are odd parallels as well. It’s not even in Mark, I think it’s Q, but the hesitation on the calling is an example. It’s so different but has so many elements it’s clearly drawn from Elisha. 

Callings are usually done by God. But Jesus calls his disciples. Elijah calls Elisha. The hesitation can be found dozens of times in the OT. In Matthew we have a concern with parents, wanting to bury them. In Kings we have Elisha wanting to tell his parents. No other hesitations or callings concern the parents. Then both Elijah and Jesus have a ridiculous rebuke for the hesitation. 

Now obviously I am attempting to say gospel writers are using Elisha as inspiration for Jesus and comparing Elijah to John the Baptist, but here the events are similar but the roles are changed up. 

This happens with the 3 denials of the master upon his “death” as well. 

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7942
Stephen: 4750
Porphyry: 1913
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1594
BJH1960: 1333
brenmcg: 1184
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
Xhcbsbaus
Gertrude Mary
MindoverMatter42
kevincoyote
RobertJames
Whereistheb
aeq
rodriguezwatchman
DevoraHaIvri24
mdjeg1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2639
Posts: 47493

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 66107
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online: Judith
Guest(s) 36
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)