Stephen said
I look forward to reading this book. I’ve heard good things about it. However I will wait for the paperback due to be published early next year.
If someone does not have other access, the pdf is on libgen.is.
I read it after S. Poloczek’s “Pagan Resurrections” and I was disappointed. The business model of university publishing houses in the West is shocking to the East.
@10:28 – jokingly against the claim Mark is written in 70AD “Well Mark 13 means this is written basically while they’re watching the temple burn.”
That the temple was destroyed by fire is one of the most significant factors of Josephus’s account.
“As the flames went upward, the Jews made a great clamor, such as so mighty an affliction required, and ran together to prevent it; and now they spared not their lives any longer, nor suffered anything to restrain their force, since that holy house was perishing…thus it was the holy house burnt down.“
“It is certain that when from the upper city they watched the temple burning they did not turn a hair, though many Romans were moved to tears.“
This destruction of the temple by fire is completely absent from Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13. The natural conclusion is that neither Matthew nor Luke nor Mark read Josephus.
brenmcg said
@10:28 – jokingly against the claim Mark is written in 70AD “Well Mark 13 means this is written basically while they’re watching the temple burn.”That the temple was destroyed by fire is one of the most significant factors of Josephus’s account.
“As the flames went upward, the Jews made a great clamor, such as so mighty an affliction required, and ran together to prevent it; and now they spared not their lives any longer, nor suffered anything to restrain their force, since that holy house was perishing…thus it was the holy house burnt down.“
“It is certain that when from the upper city they watched the temple burning they did not turn a hair, though many Romans were moved to tears.“
This destruction of the temple by fire is completely absent from Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13. The natural conclusion is that neither Matthew nor Luke nor Mark read Josephus.
That does not necessarily follow.
Second, Mark, Matthew, and Luke could have been alive when the Temple was destroyed. There was an oral tradition of AD 70. With them, everything need not rest on reading Josephus.
Maybe Mark, Matthew, and Luke were children when it happened if the gospels were not written when most people today date them.
Everything in the gospels before Jesus’ prophecy was not begging to be published before the Temple was in danger of being destroyed
and after the Temple was destroyed? ? ?
Jarek said
Stephen said
I look forward to reading this book. I’ve heard good things about it. However I will wait for the paperback due to be published early next year.
If someone does not have other access, the pdf is on libgen.is.
I read it after S. Poloczek’s “Pagan Resurrections” and I was disappointed. The business model of university publishing houses in the West is shocking to the East.
I avoid pirate sites not because I’m unaware of them but because I wish to not only read the work but to also support the author. The East is so easily shocked.
This destruction of the temple by fire is completely absent from Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13.
Josephus is writing about the destruction of the Temple. The gospels, especially Mark, are writing about events that took place earlier through the lens of later events. See the difference?
Stephen said
Jarek said
Stephen said
I look forward to reading this book. I’ve heard good things about it. However I will wait for the paperback due to be published early next year.
If someone does not have other access, the pdf is on libgen.is.
I read it after S. Poloczek’s “Pagan Resurrections” and I was disappointed. The business model of university publishing houses in the West is shocking to the East.
I avoid pirate sites not because I’m unaware of them but because I wish to not only read the work but to also support the author. The East is so easily shocked.
In the East, textbooks and scientific books are cheap, sponsored by the state, and obtaining a master’s or engineering degree depends on the willingness, diligence of a young person and does not require taking out a student loan because the tuition fee is 0. All my son’s American MIT friends were in debt over USD 150,000. USD. Both me and my three children have not paid for their studies. If I understood the author correctly, you have to pay OUP/CUP to publish a book ? The author also claims that she does not get anything from the sale???
Steefen said
That does not necessarily follow.
Second, Mark, Matthew, and Luke could have been alive when the Temple was destroyed. There was an oral tradition of AD 70. With them, everything need not rest on reading Josephus.
Maybe Mark, Matthew, and Luke were children when it happened if the gospels were not written when most people today date them.
Everything in the gospels before Jesus’ prophecy was not begging to be published before the Temple was in danger of being destroyed
and after the Temple was destroyed? ? ?
If they had witnessed the temple being destroyed, or if they had read Josephus’s account, they would know that fire was the essential element in the temple’s destruction. This essential element is absent in Jesus’s prophecies in all three synoptic accounts. Not one of them has this essential element.
Caligula’s order tin 40 AD to have a statue to himself set up in the temple is a direct cause of events leading up to the destruction of 70. Everyone living in Judea between 40-70 would have known of the heightened risk of the temple being destroyed.
Stephen said
This destruction of the temple by fire is completely absent from Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13.Josephus is writing about the destruction of the Temple. The gospels, especially Mark, are writing about events that took place earlier through the lens of later events. See the difference?
No – all three synoptics talk of the destruction of the Temple. The claim is that these prophecies in the synoptics are a direct result of the temple’s historic destruction or insurrection/siege immediately preceding it.
The fact that all three of the synoptics lack the essential causative element of the temple’s destruction is good evidence against this claim.
In the East, textbooks and scientific books are cheap, sponsored by the state, and obtaining a master’s or engineering degree depends on the willingness, diligence of a young person and does not require taking out a student loan because the tuition fee is 0.
Here in capitalist America good education (and good healthcare) is considered a perk of financial success. Many of us lament this situation. It’s effect on our country is obvious to anyone not willingly myopic. Does this justify pirating books? I leave it you.
Stephen said
In the East, textbooks and scientific books are cheap, sponsored by the state, and obtaining a master’s or engineering degree depends on the willingness, diligence of a young person and does not require taking out a student loan because the tuition fee is 0.Here in capitalist America good education (and good healthcare) is considered a perk of financial success. Many of us lament this situation. It’s effect on our country is obvious to anyone not willingly myopic. Does this justify pirating books? I leave it you.
Stephen said
In the East, textbooks and scientific books are cheap, sponsored by the state, and obtaining a master’s or engineering degree depends on the willingness, diligence of a young person and does not require taking out a student loan because the tuition fee is 0.Here in capitalist America good education (and good healthcare) is considered a perk of financial success. Many of us lament this situation. It’s effect on our country is obvious to anyone not willingly myopic. Does this justify pirating books? I leave it you.
Good. Back to the merits. I bought it, read it and in January 2021 I congratulated the author.
Jarek said
If I understood the author correctly, you have to pay OUP/CUP to publish a book ? The author also claims that she does not get anything from the sale???
Not sure which author you are referring to, but no, OUP and CUP don’t charge authors to publish; no reputable UP will charge authors to publish.
That said, authors of academic monographs may not end up seeing any royalties, or they may get a pittance after a few years. But most authors of academic monographs aren’t writing such books for the (immediate) money; they are doing it for their career, professional reputation, influence within the field, and legacy.
brenmcg
If they had witnessed the temple being destroyed, or if they had read Josephus’s account, they would know that fire was the essential element in the temple’s destruction. This essential element is absent in Jesus’s prophecies in all three synoptic accounts. Not one of them has this essential element.
Steefen, Argumentation Specialist and author of Historical Accuracy
Tell us about how fire alone destroys the massive stones at the Temple–or what accelerants were used.
Tell us about how fire alone destroys marble at the Temple–or what accelerants were used.
The fire started with Jewish rebels, not Rome, the Jewish rebels set the Temple aflame a day earlier than General Titus had planned.
What accelerants were Jewish rebel using to burn massive stones and marble?
The Romans had “engines” of destruction and rams which demolished the Temple. Fire would destroy what was flammable.
The Roman military had engines to dismantle fortresses.
Fire can destroy “skin and muscles” but not the “skeleton” of the Temple.
Fire can damage glass, metal, wood, cloth material, scrolls at the Temple.
[Not tonight will I open the Works of Josephus and go to the passages about the destruction of the Temple.]
Steefen said
brenmcgIf they had witnessed the temple being destroyed, or if they had read Josephus’s account, they would know that fire was the essential element in the temple’s destruction. This essential element is absent in Jesus’s prophecies in all three synoptic accounts. Not one of them has this essential element.
Steefen, Argumentation Specialist and author of Historical Accuracy
Tell us about how fire alone destroys the massive stones at the Temple–or what accelerants were used.
Tell us about how fire alone destroys marble at the Temple–or what accelerants were used.
The fire started with Jewish rebels, not Rome, the Jewish rebels set the Temple aflame a day earlier than General Titus had planned.
What accelerants were Jewish rebel using to burn massive stones and marble?
The Romans had “engines” of destruction and rams which demolished the Temple. Fire would destroy what was flammable.
The Roman military had engines to dismantle fortresses.
Fire can destroy “skin and muscles” but not the “skeleton” of the Temple.
Fire can damage glass, metal, wood, cloth material, scrolls at the Temple.
[Not tonight will I open the Works of Josephus and go to the passages about the destruction of the Temple.]
Yes the fire destroyed everything but the stone and marble. The roof, the beams, the windows, the gates and all the materials inside. Titus ordered the walls torn down so it could never be used again. But the fire had already destroyed the temple.
“For one would have thought that the hill itself, on which the temple stood, was seething hot; as full of fire on every part of it“
“Yet have you still despised every one of my proposals: and have set fire to your holy house with your own hands. And now, vile wretches, do you desire to treat with me by word of mouth? To what purpose is it that you would save such an holy house as this was, which is now destroyed?“
As for the accelerants Josephus says “They filled that part of the western cloister which was between the beams, and the roof under them, with dry materials; as also with bitumen and pitch.“
In his speech urging surrender Josephus says “God himself who is bringing on this fire to purge that city and temple by means of the Romans“
He says destruction by fire had been prophesied. “But as for that house, God had, for certain, long ago doomed it to the fire. And now that fatal day was come.“
Did Matthew, Luke and Mark all skip over this part when reading Josephus?
brenmcg
Did Matthew, Luke and Mark all skip over this part when reading Josephus?
Steefen
Did Matthew, Luke, and Mark all skip over the Battle of Galilee? Why not bring that up?
When checking their own memories, oral tradition of the Jewish Revolt, did Matthew, Luke, and Mark all skip over the Battle of Galilee?
Did Matthew, Luke, and Mark all skip over the Roman military engines of demolition when checking their own memories, oral tradition of the Revolt?
Steefen said
brenmcgDid Matthew, Luke and Mark all skip over this part when reading Josephus?
Steefen
Did Matthew, Luke, and Mark all skip over the Battle of Galilee? Why not bring that up?
When checking their own memories, oral tradition of the Jewish Revolt, did Matthew, Luke, and Mark all skip over the Battle of Galilee?
Did Matthew, Luke, and Mark all skip over the Roman military engines of demolition when checking their own memories, oral tradition of the Revolt?
No Matthew, Luke and Mark are all writing before those events took place.
brenmcg said
Steefen said
brenmcg
Did Matthew, Luke and Mark all skip over this part when reading Josephus?
Steefen
Did Matthew, Luke, and Mark all skip over the Battle of Galilee? Why not bring that up?
When checking their own memories, oral tradition of the Jewish Revolt, did Matthew, Luke, and Mark all skip over the Battle of Galilee?
Did Matthew, Luke, and Mark all skip over the Roman military engines of demolition when checking their own memories, oral tradition of the Revolt?
No Matthew, Luke and Mark are all writing before those events took place.
Oh, okay, we agree to disagree: count me out of that line of reasoning.
Video at the time 29:01
Question abut Romans 16: 23
22 I, Tertius, who wrote down this letter, greet you in the Lord.…
23 Gaius, who has hosted me and all the church, sends you greetings.
Erastus, the city treasurer, sends you greetings,
as does our brother Quartus.
The Interviewer Asks Professor Walsh
A Roman Treasurer is a Christian?
Professor Walsh
I recommend
keywords=Christ%27s+Associations&qid=1669490594&s=books&sprefix=christ%27s+associations%2Cstripbooks%2C71&sr=1-1
Prof Walsh
The Greek word for “church” was in operation long before Paul picked it up.
= = =
Romans is Paul’s intellectual C.V.
= = =
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
Question: at about ** you do not have permission to see this link ** Walsh says Kloppenborg says we don’t have any evidence until the second century of Romans at the senatorial level being Christians.
What about Clemens and Flavia Domitilla?
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert