Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
Q theory and the story of Peter denying Jesus
Avatar
rdchambers20

2 Posts
(Offline)
1
July 4, 2021 - 11:17 am

When I read about the theory of the Q documents, a proposed source for the gospels of Matthew and Luke besides Mark, I always wonder about how it explains the story of Peter denying Jesus three times before the rooster crows twice. The Q theory would suggest that the Q material was only about sayings of Jesus, not stories.

Both Matthew and Luke say he denied Jesus three times before the rooster crows once. If both gospels used Mark as the main source for the passion narrative, one would expect them to say Peter denied Jesus three times before the rooster crows twice. Was there another passion narrative source? Or the story in Mark changed later, after the other gospels used it? Or did Matthew and Luke coincidentally both change the source’s story in the same way?

Was the Q document about more than sayings? Is Q theory even the best explanation of source material patterns?

Avatar
Robert
7232 Posts
(Offline)
2
July 4, 2021 - 3:34 pm
Avatar
vergari

370 Posts
(Offline)
3
August 5, 2021 - 6:46 pm

RICHARD CHAMBERS said
When I read about the theory of the Q documents, a proposed source for the gospels of Matthew and Luke besides Mark, I always wonder about how it explains the story of Peter denying Jesus three times before the rooster crows twice. The Q theory would suggest that the Q material was only about sayings of Jesus, not stories.

Both Matthew and Luke say he denied Jesus three times before the rooster crows once. If both gospels used Mark as the main source for the passion narrative, one would expect them to say Peter denied Jesus three times before the rooster crows twice. Was there another passion narrative source? Or the story in Mark changed later, after the other gospels used it? Or did Matthew and Luke coincidentally both change the source’s story in the same way?

Was the Q document about more than sayings? Is Q theory even the best explanation of source material patterns?

  

Excellent question.

There’s a simple solution here: Q doesn’t exist as an independent, stand-alone document; and Luke most likely changed the rooster crowing based on Matthew (which Luke had access to), but also possibly in concert with another now lost source or sources, which likewise said once.

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7942
Stephen: 4750
Porphyry: 1913
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1594
BJH1960: 1333
brenmcg: 1184
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
Xhcbsbaus
Gertrude Mary
MindoverMatter42
kevincoyote
RobertJames
Whereistheb
aeq
rodriguezwatchman
DevoraHaIvri24
mdjeg1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2639
Posts: 47493

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 66107
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online: Judith
Guest(s) 34
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)