Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
Return of disciples to Jerusalem
Avatar
Blackwell

181 Posts
(Offline)
1
April 30, 2021 - 12:08 pm

If the disciples fled from Jerusalem back to Galilee after the crucifixion and that is where they had visions of a resurrected Jesus, would it have been more sensible for them to remain in Galilee among friends who knew Jesus rather than return to Jerusalem where people were hostile?

Why would the disciples have returned to Jerusalem?

Avatar
Robert
7123 Posts
(Offline)
2
April 30, 2021 - 12:33 pm
Avatar
Stephen
4602 Posts
(Offline)
3
April 30, 2021 - 2:41 pm

Possibly they were expecting an eschatological event involving the Temple? 

That’s my guess.  They went to Jerusalem during Passover in the first place expecting an eschatological event and returned because they expected an imminent Parousia.  On the other hand it makes more sense to imagine that the “appearances” took place in Galilee.  Notice how Mark separates the Empty Tomb experience from any potential appearances.  And in Paul’s I Cor 15 credo why would James see Jesus in Jerusalem if he wasn’t already a believer? And under what scenario would you have 500 brothers present to see the resurrected Jesus in Jerusalem? 

So here’s my historical scenario.  Jesus and his immediate disciples, perhaps accompanied by an indeterminate group of fellow travelers, made the journey to Jerusalem during Passover expecting the Parousia.  There was some kind of incident in the Temple but instead of vindication by God, Jesus was immediately arrested, condemned and crucified.  (It follows from this scenario that the stories of the trials before the Sanhedrin and Pilate are non-historical.)  The disciples escaped to Galilee where after some indeterminate interval people in the community began having experiences which they interpreted as the beginning of the Parousia, heralded by appearances of Jesus.  They returned to Jerusalem for the same reason they went the first time.  A small colony remained in Jerusalem until the Revolt while a larger Jesus movement sprang up in Galilee.   

Avatar
Blackwell

181 Posts
(Offline)
4
May 1, 2021 - 1:22 pm

Stephen,

The reason that the disciples went to Jerusalem the first time is that they followed Jesus.

If he subsequently appeared to them in Galilee, there was no reason for them to return to Jerusalem.

Could they not have experienced Parousia in Galilee?

When you say “some indeterminate interval”, do you mean a few days, weeks, months or even a year or two?

Avatar
Stephen
4602 Posts
(Offline)
5
May 3, 2021 - 6:11 pm

If he subsequently appeared to them in Galilee, there was no reason for them to return to Jerusalem.

Could they not have experienced Parousia in Galilee?

Likely they returned for the same reason they went the first time.  They saw some kind of eschatological association between the Temple and the Parousia, perhaps?  Galilee may have been a backwater even in the world of the spirit.

When you say “some indeterminate interval”, do you mean a few days, weeks, months or even a year or two?

How it actually worked we don’t know.  Historically I mean.  The NT makes it seem like a hasty phenomenon, unfolding within a few days of the crucifixion and wrapping up rather quickly as well. I suspect this tradition began as a way of distinguishing “official” resurrection appearances and to validate the early leadership.  Note that one of Paul’s difficulties with his opponents was his claim to apostleship since he wasn’t one of the original disciples.  

Avatar
Blackwell

181 Posts
(Offline)
6
May 4, 2021 - 1:47 pm

Historically, I don’t see any reason to suppose that the disciples remained as a single coordinated group which fled to Galilee immediately after the death of Jesus.

It seems probable that all the disciples remained in Jerusalem for several weeks after the crucifixion and that is where the initial appearances occurred which convinced them that Jesus had been resurrected. About half of them may have then returned to Galilee to visit family and friends. They could have travelled back and forth but there was probably always a core group remaining in Jerusalem.

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7786
Stephen: 4602
Porphyry: 1852
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1424
BJH1960: 1205
brenmcg: 1184
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
Auntiejack56
giventerry
brokinrhythm
Thurly
dsorrent7
iam.vernon.b.rose
israelam
Abw2026
StephenJ
AnnaH
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2616
Posts: 46472

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 65923
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online: 2380, Judith, Porphyry
Guest(s) 46
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)