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revealations 11:1-14
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jakejones

223 Posts
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March 3, 2022 - 3:35 pm

Does revealations 11:1-14 think that the jewish temple is inviolable?

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Steefen
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March 3, 2022 - 3:48 pm

Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy

Google Result:
Almost all New Testament scholars now take the view that Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian, sometime around 95-96 CE.

= = =

1) Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the number of worshipers there.

The Temple exists in the vision, not on earth. If not, please explain.

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jaihare

66 Posts
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March 6, 2022 - 2:25 pm

jakejones said
Does revealations 11:1-14 think that the jewish temple is inviolable?

The Revelation (not Revealations or Revelations) does not think anything. It’s a book, and books don’t think. You might ask if the author of the Revelation thought something, which is a different question. Why would the author of the Revelation think that the Jerusalem temple was inviolable? What would give you that impression from those verses?

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Stephen
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March 6, 2022 - 5:58 pm

Even more importantly who are the Two Witnesses? 

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jaihare

66 Posts
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March 7, 2022 - 7:22 pm

Stephen said
Even more importantly who are the Two Witnesses?

Esoterically, I think Jehovah’s [a] witness, and maybe Osiris is the second. (This is a joke on “Jehovah’s Witness[es],” taking the ’s to mean is rather than the possessive and playing on the fact that Jehovah is as much a myth as Osiris.)

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jakejones

223 Posts
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March 11, 2022 - 5:35 am

my question was based on something i read on academic biblical 

 

The period of 42 months (= 1,260 days) derives from Daniel (see 7:25-26, 9:27, 12:7, 11-12), drawing on an exegesis that identifies the current crisis with the tribulation in 12:1 (cf. the allusion to this verse in Revelation 7:14). We know that Daniel 9 was applied to the Jewish war after the fact as attested in Josephus, Mark 13, and the Seder ‘Olam Rabbah. The unusual way that Daniel is interpreted however suggests that these revise an earlier interpretation of Daniel that predicted that the Romans would profane the Temple with idolatry (the “abomination of desolation” of 13:14) until the parousia of the Lord brings forth the end of Gentile rule. It is probably after the fact that Daniel was interpreted as referring to the destruction of the Temple. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 shares with Mark 13 the belief that the sanctuary of the Temple would be breached with the installation of the abomination of desolation, in this case probably an idol of the eschatological antagonist (= the “little horn” of Daniel, i.e. the Gentile king profaning the Temple) implicitly identified with the emperor (with a possible reminiscence of the intentions of Gaius Caligula in setting up his image in the Temple). Revelation 11:1-14 on the other hand expresses the view that the sanctuary would not be breached, reflecting the perspective in earlier Jewish tradition and by the Zealots that the Temple was inviolable (cf. Zechariah 12:2-6, 1 Enoch 56:5-8, Sibylline Oracles 5.101-10, Josephus, BJ 5.459, 6.98; cf. Dio Cassius 65.5.4), with the Gentile trampling of the city only lasting the same duration as prophesied by Daniel. So this does not look like an ex eventu prediction but one made during the events prior to Titus’ destruction of the Temple in 70 CE that counters the expectation that a profaning of the sanctuary lies in the future. The act of measuring in v. 1-2 has in mind Ezekiel 40-42 which mentions the wall surrounding the inner court (42:20, cf. 1 Kings 6:36, 7:12), as well as Zechariah 2:1-5 which posits Yahweh himself as a wall of fire protecting the people inside, cf. Zechariah 12:1-9 in which Yahweh and the Jews of Jerusalem would consume the Gentiles besieging the city like fire.

David Aune persuasively argues that Revelation contains twelve early blocks of visionary material, composed in the 60s and 70s (which includes the present vision), which were subsequently inserted into a heptadic structure in an early version of Revelation. Three of the twelve units were placed between the seven trumpets and the seven bowls. Another three were placed inside the seven seals structure, in between the sixth and seventh seal. The remaining six were placed after the seven bowls, with two angelic revelations that frame the other units. The visions in the heptadic material may have been written in the 80s, as they seem to allude to the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 CE (see Revelation 8:8-9 in the seven trumpets series). Then the book was completed in the 90s with the redaction that added the epistles to the Asian churches and the concluding chapters.

 

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jaihare

66 Posts
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7
March 11, 2022 - 6:06 am

jakejones said
my question was based on something i read on academic biblical 

 

The period of 42 months (= 1,260 days) derives from Daniel (see 7:25-26, 9:27, 12:7, 11-12), drawing on an exegesis that identifies the current crisis with the tribulation in 12:1 (cf. the allusion to this verse in Revelation 7:14). We know that Daniel 9 was applied to the Jewish war after the fact as attested in Josephus, Mark 13, and the Seder ‘Olam Rabbah. The unusual way that Daniel is interpreted however suggests that these revise an earlier interpretation of Daniel that predicted that the Romans would profane the Temple with idolatry (the “abomination of desolation” of 13:14) until the parousia of the Lord brings forth the end of Gentile rule. It is probably after the fact that Daniel was interpreted as referring to the destruction of the Temple. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 shares with Mark 13 the belief that the sanctuary of the Temple would be breached with the installation of the abomination of desolation, in this case probably an idol of the eschatological antagonist (= the “little horn” of Daniel, i.e. the Gentile king profaning the Temple) implicitly identified with the emperor (with a possible reminiscence of the intentions of Gaius Caligula in setting up his image in the Temple). Revelation 11:1-14 on the other hand expresses the view that the sanctuary would not be breached, reflecting the perspective in earlier Jewish tradition and by the Zealots that the Temple was inviolable (cf. Zechariah 12:2-6, 1 Enoch 56:5-8, Sibylline Oracles 5.101-10, Josephus, BJ 5.459, 6.98; cf. Dio Cassius 65.5.4), with the Gentile trampling of the city only lasting the same duration as prophesied by Daniel. So this does not look like an ex eventu prediction but one made during the events prior to Titus’ destruction of the Temple in 70 CE that counters the expectation that a profaning of the sanctuary lies in the future. The act of measuring in v. 1-2 has in mind Ezekiel 40-42 which mentions the wall surrounding the inner court (42:20, cf. 1 Kings 6:36, 7:12), as well as Zechariah 2:1-5 which posits Yahweh himself as a wall of fire protecting the people inside, cf. Zechariah 12:1-9 in which Yahweh and the Jews of Jerusalem would consume the Gentiles besieging the city like fire.

David Aune persuasively argues that Revelation contains twelve early blocks of visionary material, composed in the 60s and 70s (which includes the present vision), which were subsequently inserted into a heptadic structure in an early version of Revelation. Three of the twelve units were placed between the seven trumpets and the seven bowls. Another three were placed inside the seven seals structure, in between the sixth and seventh seal. The remaining six were placed after the seven bowls, with two angelic revelations that frame the other units. The visions in the heptadic material may have been written in the 80s, as they seem to allude to the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 CE (see Revelation 8:8-9 in the seven trumpets series). Then the book was completed in the 90s with the redaction that added the epistles to the Asian churches and the concluding chapters.

 

  

What is “academic biblical”?

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jakejones

223 Posts
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8
March 16, 2022 - 1:22 pm

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