In Matthew 24:34 when listing the events that would take place before his Second Coming, Jesus states that ‘this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled”. My understanding is that ‘this generation’ equals the people that were listening to Jesus at that moment. However, I am sure that ‘this generation’ has already passed and Jesus still has not returned. Does that mean that Jesus got this wrong? How do Christians interpret this verse?
Another failed “prophecy” by Jesus is in Matthew 23:10.
When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
The other noteworthy aspect of this one is that it would seem to preclude a ministry to the gentiles!
Stephen said
Another failed “prophecy” by Jesus is in Matthew 23:10.When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
The other noteworthy aspect of this one is that it would seem to preclude a ministry to the gentiles!
Precisely why Luke and Mark left it out.
moux323 said
In Matthew 24:34 when listing the events that would take place before his Second Coming, Jesus states that ‘this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled”. My understanding is that ‘this generation’ equals the people that were listening to Jesus at that moment. However, I am sure that ‘this generation’ has already passed and Jesus still has not returned. Does that mean that Jesus got this wrong? How do Christians interpret this verse?
One way to interpret this is to notice he uses the same word in the next verse “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.”
By “pass away” he does not mean “to die”.
Heaven and earth will pass away to be replaced by the new kingdom, but there will be trials and tribulations before this. The saints in the book of revelation will pass away to the new kingdom without having to go through these tribulations, but this sinful generation surely wont “pass away” before these things occur.
moux323 said
In Matthew 24:34 when listing the events that would take place before his Second Coming, Jesus states that ‘this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled”. My understanding is that ‘this generation’ equals the people that were listening to Jesus at that moment. However, I am sure that ‘this generation’ has already passed and Jesus still has not returned. Does that mean that Jesus got this wrong? How do Christians interpret this verse?
Steefen
You say, that generation passed but Jesus did not return.
Jesus was Son of Man, first person. Then the Son of Man became Son of Man in the third person.
Jesus, Son of Man, in the first person was not the person returning.
Stephen said
Another failed “prophecy” by Jesus is in Matthew 23:10.When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
The other noteworthy aspect of this one is that it would seem to preclude a ministry to the gentiles!
We need to be honest and do an assessment of prophecies that have come true.
Also, let’s deconstruct these “failed prophecies” to see if they indeed have “failed” in the same way we deconstruct everything else in the Gospels. The prophecy you see being FULFILLED IN YOUR OWN DAY is the return of the Jews to Israel – something mocked by intellectuals and atheists right up to about 100 years ago.
Does that mean that Jesus got this wrong? How do Christians interpret this verse?
They tend to argue God is operating on a different time scale than humans. Also the historical Jesus probably did think that in his lifetime there would be a divine intervention to liberate Judea and bring about God’s Kingdom.
Stephen said
Another failed “prophecy” by Jesus is in Matthew 23:10.When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
The other noteworthy aspect of this one is that it would seem to preclude a ministry to the gentiles!
Jesus also said there shall be a “fulfillment” of the Gentiles, and when it happens that Jews will return to Jerusalem. he also speaks of the fall of the churches and of them being “a cage of every hateful and unclean bird.” These things are happening now – he clearly wasn’t speaking of a few decades away.
Poohbear, I think we may disagree about the term clearly here.
Jesus is portrayed as clearly stating that some of those listening would not die before these things happened.
This clearly didn’t happen. They all died, and we’re all still here, not in the Kingdom.
The question is, why not? Either that’s not what Jesus meant (your interpretation) or he was wrong or there’s another (not so clear) level on which to see it.
But whatever the resolution, it is not clear. If it were, we wouldn’t be having this conversation because we’d already agree.
Hngerhman said
Poohbear, I think we may disagree about the term clearly here.Jesus is portrayed as clearly stating that some of those listening would not die before these things happened.
This clearly didn’t happen. They all died, and we’re all still here, not in the Kingdom.
The question is, why not? Either that’s not what Jesus meant (your interpretation) or he was wrong or there’s another (not so clear) level on which to see it.
But whatever the resolution, it is not clear. If it were, we wouldn’t be having this conversation because we’d already agree.
This is the verse that the JW’s have trouble with. And clearly, some of the early church too because Paul had to tell them that the end would not be in their time. Jesus spoke of the Jews losing their nation ‘UNTIL the Gentiles time is fulfilled.’ Given that the mission to the Gentiles hadn’t even began until Acts. The Apostles said there must first be a “falling away” before the “end” would come.
Hngerhman said
Yes, those verses probably caused a stir because as stated on its face, they are incorrect. For this not to be the case, one has to read them other than straightforwardly.Paul at one point writes he expected the parousia in his lifetime. And 2 Thes is probably not him.
Jesus’ mission was firstly to the Jews. And then to the Gentiles. Prophecy states that it would be told to the generations “not yet born that he has done this.” It speaks too of a “falling away” and the collapse of the churches “no more the candle, no more the voice of the bride and bridegroom.” And then the return of the Jews to their homeland “a second time” out of nations that had been their “graves.”
And then we read of the Jews mourn as they realize their Messiah who has arrived is the same lowly man they crucified.
Doesn’t read like Jesus died for a single generation.
Poohbear said
Doesn’t read like Jesus died for a single generation.
One thing to make sure I’m myself clear here – it’s not that Jesus died for (the salvation) of one generation. The verses say that Jesus says a certain complete set of things will happen within the lifetime of some of those then alive. Those people died, around 2,000 year ago. The complete set of things don’t seem to have happened.
Again, it’s not about why one’s faith (or lack thereof) should or should not abide the issue, on its face in these verses. It’s acknowledging that’s there’s an issue to resolve that’s the point.
Hngerhman said
One thing to make sure I’m myself clear here – it’s not that Jesus died for (the salvation) of one generation. The verses say that Jesus says a certain complete set of things will happen within the lifetime of some of those then alive. Those people died, around 2,000 year ago. The complete set of things don’t seem to have happened.
Again, it’s not about why one’s faith (or lack thereof) should or should not abide the issue, on its face in these verses. It’s acknowledging that’s there’s an issue to resolve that’s the point.
For sure, and some remarks attributed to Jesus cannot be resolved (in this case even the “eagles” reference.) We simply don’t understand what was meant by many things. It’s clearly intentional, otherwise it would be written like this. But in Matthew’s case Jesus is speaking of a number of ages – or at least jumbled up by the author. There’s the fall of Jerusalem; the falling away and the end of the world.
It would make no sense that Jesus came to the Redeemer for the whole world, and the world would end in the lifetime of those who witnessed him. Furthermore, lots of predictions require long ages to come (ie the rise and fall of the Gentiles.)
Stephen said
We simply don’t understand what was meant by many things.Agreed, but to me that sounds like the exact opposite of a revelation.
As I see it – the revelation is of Jesus as the Christ. The Book of Revelations is about as obscure as it gets. Of note – I read today the last chapter of John’s Gospel where he is asked about Judas. John points out that what Jesus said was not understood by his disciples. Clearly Jesus could speak in ambiguous or symbolic language. And often people were afraid to ask him what this meant – that suggests something about the man’s authoritative personality. This forced people to examine, at a private level, what he was saying.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
1 Guest(s)