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Speculation about anonymous Gospels
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Lawyerskeptic

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January 23, 2016 - 12:06 pm

Bart speculates that the Gospels might have been written anonymously because they would be perceived to have greater authority. Old Testament historical Scripture like Judges and 1 Kings were anonymous and gospel authors might have wanted their histories of Jesus to be accorded equal respect. Bart D. Ehrman, Forged 223-25 (HarperCollins 2011).

Sometime in the second century, noncanonical Gospels appeared which claimed apostolic authorship, such as the Gospel of Peter. Around the same time, the canonical Gospels were attributed to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Was there some sea change in the second century that made Gospels more authoritative if written by named authors? Was there some other reason – other than making them seem more authoritative – for putting names on the Gospels?

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beautifulmeercat497

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January 23, 2016 - 1:09 pm

Lawyerskeptic said
Bart speculates that the Gospels might have been written anonymously because they would be perceived to have greater authority. Old Testament historical Scripture like Judges and 1 Kings were anonymous and gospel authors might have wanted their histories of Jesus to be accorded equal respect. Bart D. Ehrman, Forged 223-25 (HarperCollins 2011).

Sometime in the second century, noncanonical Gospels appeared which claimed apostolic authorship, such as the Gospel of Peter. Around the same time, the canonical Gospels were attributed to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Was there some sea change in the second century that made Gospels more authoritative if written by named authors? Was there some other reason – other than making them seem more authoritative – for putting names on the Gospels?

Not just authoritative by putting names to the gospels  – the names add to the illusion of historicity. A sea change in the second century? I would suggest from political allegory to being viewed, accepted, as history. Memories fade with time. If the gospel story was known in the first century, either from a written source or orally, then those aware of Hasmonean/Jewish history would be able to identify that history in the gospel allusions, reflections or echoes of that history. As time went on memory gave way to viewing the gospel story itself as history. Which, of course, is the default view of the gospel story today. However, to assume that that is how the gospel story was always viewed is without warrant. All it took for the gospel story to be viewed as history was for historical memory of Hasmonean/Jewish history to fade into the background. Today, our historical memories are held on tape  –  easily replayed when required  –  at our fingertips with just a click of the mouse. Memories, oral tradition, in a non-technical world, would very soon become clouded over by the ravages of old age. That is one reason, to my mind, that the gospel writers sought to reflect Hasmonean/Jewish history within the format of a political allegory. A story that encapsulates historical memory for all time  –  even at the danger of that story itself being viewed as history once historical memory faded with the passing of time. However, Hasmonean/Jewish history would always remain tied up with the gospel story  –  thereby enabling historical research of that story to identify the historical memories it alludes to.

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Lawyerskeptic

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January 23, 2016 - 2:25 pm

maryhelena

I have not read about the Gospels being “political allegory.” You mean like Animal Farm by George Orwell is political allegory about communism? What is the gospel allegory?

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beautifulmeercat497

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January 23, 2016 - 3:24 pm

Lawyerskeptic said
maryhelena

I have not read about the Gospels being “political allegory.” You mean like Animal Farm by George Orwell is political allegory about communism? What is the gospel allegory?

Literature like Animal Farm is of interest when viewing the gospel story as basically a political allegory. 

Animal Farm is an ** you do not have permission to see this link **

Other allegorical narratives such as The Wizard of Oz, Pilgrim’s Progress and The Crucible come to mind.

Wikipedia: The Pilgrim’s Progress from This World to That Which Is to Come; Delivered under the Similitude of a Dream is a ** you do not have permission to see this link ** has been translated into more than 200 languages, and has never been out of print.

Wikipedia: Baum did not offer any conclusive proof that he intended his novel to be a political allegory. Historian Ranjit S. Dighe wrote that for sixty years after the book’s publication, “virtually nobody” had such an interpretation until ** you do not have permission to see this link **

Not only did Baum draw inspiration from the American land around him, but he also created Oz to display an American utopia where the issues of the day were solved.

Wikipedia:The Crucible is a 1953 play by the American playwright ** you do not have permission to see this link ** accused communists.

A political allegory approach to the gospel narrative offers, to my mind, a more rational explanation of it’s content. The options are not just some sort of mythic fantasy or literal history…

History, reality, the world they lived in, was very important to both the OT writers and the NT writers. As Ehrman recently wrote in a blog post, historical context was very important.

Now I need to explain why the “prophetic” views came to change.  To make sense of the change I have to sketch a set of historical events that the people of Israel had to live through.   Some people find these kinds of historical sketches fascinating; others find them dull as dirt.  But in either event, you really have to know what happened among ancient Jews in order to make sense of what their theological beliefs were, since these beliefs were molded by and informed by nothing so much as the historical context out of which they emerged.

** you do not have permission to see this link **

What was the gospel political allegory about? It’s a story set during the time of Roman occupation of Judea. The Romans had executed the last King and High Priest of the Jews, Antigonus in 37 b.c.e. Under Roman occupation any remembrance of Antigonus would be curtailed. Whatever were the prophetic views of the Antigonus history would have to be recounted via a story. Writing stories, writing historical fiction or pseudo-history, was what OT prophets did. i.e. they interpreted their history as such and such  –  and recorded their prophetic interpretations as ‘history’. The pattern was set long before NT writers put ink on parchment. History, Jewish history, is mixed up with salvation history, with prophetic history, interpretations of history.

The Roman execution of Antigonus was not, of course, the only history that concerned the NT writers. But that history is the foundation, as it were, for the political allegory the NT writers wrote. Yes, there is theology, philosophy and mythology within the gospel narrative. But what comes first is, as Ehrman has expressed in that blog post, history. History was primary for the gospel writers  –  just as history is primary for Jews to this day. Ideas might come and go  –  historical facts  –  such as can be objectively ascertained  –  are primary.

As to further content of the gospel political allegory  –  I put up a chart on another thread.

Historical chart of Hasmonean/Jewish history as reflected in the gospel story.

** you do not have permission to see this link **

——————————–

Wikipedia: ”Writers or speakers typically use allegories as literary devices or as rhetorical devices that convey hidden meanings through symbolic figures, actions, imagery, and/or events, which together create the moral, spiritual, or political meaning the author wishes to convey”.
——————–
 
Simply stated: While the gospel crucifixion story is about an itinerant preacher carpenter executed by Rome  –  a story without any chance of ever being historically verified  –  a political allegory approach to the story will look at history, Hasmonean/Jewish history, in order to ascertain if the gospel narrative bears any resemblance to that history. A political allegory approach to the gospel narrative seeks to look, as it were, under the surface of the gospel story. It seeks to remove the theological and mythological overlay and view the history that inspired the gospel narrative.

 

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gmatthews

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January 23, 2016 - 3:53 pm

Have you ever been able to summarize your clap trap in a paragraph or less?  My god, I know quantum physicists who can explain string theory in less space.

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beautifulmeercat497

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January 23, 2016 - 4:00 pm

Greg Matthews said 
Have you ever been able to summarize your clap trap in a paragraph or less?  My god, I know quantum physicists who can explain string theory in less space.

”…clap trap….”

Not nice, Greg, not nice at all.

Mockery and ridicule are a poor substitute for argument….

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Lawyerskeptic

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January 23, 2016 - 4:15 pm

Follow-up question about the anonymous Gospels. I have never understood the relationship between Aramaic and Hebrew. All I know about Aramaic is what I read on Wikipedia. Jesus and his followers spoke Aramaic, so is there any reason his disciples would not have written in Aramaic if any of them had written a gospel? Wikipedia tells me the Talmud was in Aramaic.

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gmatthews

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January 23, 2016 - 4:23 pm

No, there is no reason they might not have written in Aramaic if they weren’t illiterate, however, since Greek was for the educated if they’d had any education at all they would have probably done it in Greek.   There was a major Greek settlement very near to Galilee where they would have been plenty of Hellenists.  Note, there are some Aramaic words, and at least one Aramaic phrase I think, found in the Gospels.

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beautifulmeercat497

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January 23, 2016 - 4:29 pm

Lawyerskeptic said
Follow-up question about the anonymous Gospels. I have never understood the relationship between Aramaic and Hebrew. All I know about Aramaic is what I read on Wikipedia. Jesus and his followers spoke Aramaic, so is there any reason his disciples would not have written in Aramaic if any of them had written a gospel? Wikipedia tells me the Talmud was in Aramaic.

Thomas Brodie has this to say regarding literary dependence:

It is such studies that help to give an alternative explanation to many of the
features in the New Testament. For instance: ( 1 ) occasional use of Aramaic
fits the literary technique of archaism and the biblical literary tradition of
inserting Aramaic into Hebrew (see Ezra-Nehemiah, later imitated in Daniel;
Wesselius 2001 : esp. 299-303); (2) the references to processes of going back
to older material and handing it on (e.g. Lk. 1 . 1 -4; I Cor. 1 1 .2, 23; 1 5. 1 -5)
are being recognized as referring to handing on a literary tradition (cf.
J.N. Collins 201 0), as being literally ‘according to the scriptures’;

Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus.

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Bgipson

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January 25, 2016 - 6:12 pm

Greg Matthews said
No, there is no reason they might not have written in Aramaic if they weren’t illiterate, however, since Greek was for the educated if they’d had any education at all they would have probably done it in Greek.   There was a major Greek settlement very near to Galilee where they would have been plenty of Hellenists.  Note, there are some Aramaic words, and at least one Aramaic phrase I think, found in the Gospels.

 

Are you referring to (demonstrating my complete ignorance of the geography) Tarsus?  

 Some christians like to point out that some of the disciples who were in the fishing business , had servants and therefore were (by a stretch only an apologist could find acceptable) able to read and write. I’m inclined to think they were illiterate, but even if they could read and write, the question seems to be why they would favor written accounts vis the dominant means of oral transmission; particularly since they seemed to believe that the end was imminent.  When you expect the kingdom to arrive, like a thief in the night, do you take the time to write out your thoughts or do you set out to tell as many people as you can?

To be sure, we know Paul wrote letters and wasn’t the phrase “like a thief in the night,” Paul’s simile?  Yes, and Paul did both, but there’s yet another reason to think that they favored oral transmission: tradition. Their master, according to biblical accounts, went around preaching. There’s not a single reference in the New Testament about Jesus composing anything so much as a letter or sermon. Paul by contrast, not only had an advanced education, but also seems to have written letters when he was unable to be present. This is to say, I think, Paul also favored oral transmission, but wrote letters out of practical consideration.

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Bgipson

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January 25, 2016 - 6:20 pm

Lawyerskeptic said
Follow-up question about the anonymous Gospels. I have never understood the relationship between Aramaic and Hebrew. All I know about Aramaic is what I read on Wikipedia. Jesus and his followers spoke Aramaic, so is there any reason his disciples would not have written in Aramaic if any of them had written a gospel? Wikipedia tells me the Talmud was in Aramaic.

LS:

“Aramaic truly got around—even to places where no one had ever actually spoken it, in the form of its alphabet, on which both Hebrew and Arabic writing were based. By the time the Persians won the next round of Mesopotamian musical chairs in the 500s B.C.E., Aramaic was so well-entrenched that it seemed natural to maintain it as the new empire’s official language, instead of using Persian.”

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Bgipson

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January 25, 2016 - 6:26 pm

maryhelena said ”…clap trap….” Not nice, Greg, not nice at all.Mockery and ridicule are a poor substitute for argument….

That all depends on whether one is responding to an actual argument or, as it were, clap trap.  If you are making actual arguments, it is the best kept secret on this thread, maryhelena. To paraphrase, that estimable philosopher, Mr. Forrest Gump, clap trap is as clap trap does.

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beautifulmeercat497

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January 25, 2016 - 6:35 pm

spiker said

maryhelena said ”…clap trap….” Not nice, Greg, not nice at all.Mockery and ridicule are a poor substitute for argument….

That all depends on whether one is responding to an actual argument or, as it were, clap trap.  If you are making actual arguments, it is the best kept secret on this thread, maryhelena. To paraphrase, that estimable philosopher, Mr. Forrest Gump, clap trap is as clap trap does.

No secret, spiker, all that is required of you is to demonstrate reading comprehension….but with mockery and ridicule as your aim….rationality flies out the window and all that is left is indeed hidden from view….

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Judith

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January 25, 2016 - 7:33 pm

Greg, Please tell us who can explain string therapy in such a concise way. I’m especially interested in the seven  
“unexpressed additional dimensions aspect” (to the four we all know about) and am not being facetious when asking who can explain it so simply. Am reading Marilynne Robinson’s The Givenness of Things. She alludes to string therapy along with quantum entanglement to illustrate science’s primitive concepts of the universe. Just a name please. Thanks!

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magpie
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January 25, 2016 - 8:23 pm

Judith, I suggest going to YouTube and searching on string theory.  I just tried and there are multiple videos of varying length and complexity to choose from.  I am currently watching a discussion by Lawence Krauss and others on the limits of science whilst catching up on comments on this forum.  There are videos by reputable and recognized physicists like Michio Kaku. I will never understand it mathematically but I can get some idea from these videos.  Good luck!

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gmatthews

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January 25, 2016 - 8:29 pm

spiker said

Greg Matthews said
No, there is no reason they might not have written in Aramaic if they weren’t illiterate, however, since Greek was for the educated if they’d had any education at all they would have probably done it in Greek.   There was a major Greek settlement very near to Galilee where they would have been plenty of Hellenists.  Note, there are some Aramaic words, and at least one Aramaic phrase I think, found in the Gospels.

 

Are you referring to (demonstrating my complete ignorance of the geography) Tarsus?  

Tarsus was on the southern coast of modern day Turkey.  I never can think of the name of this town I’m talking about, but I think it’s Sepphoris.  There’s a wiki entry on so I belabor the details.  It was within the region of Galilee and just a handful of miles of many places Jesus visited.  There was a good article on it in BAR magazine about 2 or 3 years ago which brought it to my attention.

I’m of the opinion that Mark was written for Hellenistic Jews and by the time Matthew and Luke were written the message of Jesus was being brought to a wider audience outside of Palestine.  Both of these points were reasons Aramaic would not have been used.  In the case of the former the audience were Hellenists so the chances they knew Aramaic were slim and none.  I don’t guess I need to explain the obviousness of Matthew and Luke not being in Aramaic.

I wish Bart would do a post or two on the Hellenists.  There’s a lot of subtext to what was going on with them.

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gmatthews

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January 25, 2016 - 8:32 pm

Judith said
Greg, Please tell us who can explain string therapy in such a concise way. I’m especially interested in the seven  
“unexpressed additional dimensions aspect” (to the four we all know about) and am not being facetious when asking who can explain it so simply. Am reading Marilynne Robinson’s The Givenness of Things. She alludes to string therapy along with quantum entanglement to illustrate science’s primitive concepts of the universe. Just a name please. Thanks!

Neil deGrasse Tyson has a wonderful summarized explanation for it.  I’m not a physicist so I won’t try explaining.  It’s one of those things I get, but could never explain to someone else.

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Judith

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January 25, 2016 - 8:34 pm

Greg, Did not expect explanation. Just name. Thanks and thanks again.

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Boltonian

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January 25, 2016 - 8:53 pm

Judith said
Greg, Did not expect explanation. Just name. Thanks and thanks again.

Michio Kaku (mentioned above), Marcus Chown, John Gribbin and Jim al-Khalili are all excellent at explaining quantum physics, including string theory, to non-physicists. 

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Judith

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January 25, 2016 - 11:36 pm

Thanks, magpie and Boltonian and Greg yet again 🙂

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