Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
The second edition of my book or my next book about the historical accuracy of the Bible must include Jesus, Apocalyptic Prophet by Bart D. Ehrman.
Bart D.E.
At Jesus’ trial before the Sanhedrin in Mark’s gospel, Jesus boldly states to the high priest,
You will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven.” That is, the end would come and the high priest would see it.
Luke, however, changes Mark, saying, “from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God–no longer predicting the high priest will be alive to see this.
This de-apocalypticizing of Jesus’ message continues into the second century with the gospel of Thomas.
Steve Campbell
I do not remember Bart bringing this up as an example where the Bible contradicts or debunks itself.
This is partially why the resurrection of Lazarus does not appear in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
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What does this mean for Jesus referencing the Son of Man in the first person?
Bart D.E.
that there will be a judgment and a resurrection of the dead at the end of the age is here debunked.
Steve Campbell
No judgement means God does not have to delegate judgement to Enoch or Jesus.
1) What does Bart’s comment about Luke and John mean for the faithful?
It means the author of John tried to fix Mark, Matthew, and Luke so Jesus would not be seen as a false prophet, or as Bart D.E. so Jesus would not be “mistaken.”
Man has to correct the Son of God–since is prophecy was false (false prophet and the failed hypothesis of many Jews in the 1st century who believed in Jewish Apocalypticism).
The Bible, including the New Testament has a credibility problem.
2) What does Bart’s comment about Luke and John mean for the search for the historical Jesus?
Time told us what Jesus said in the late 20s / early 30s was wrong.
It also says something about Oral Tradition. Look what the authors of Gospel of Luke and Gospel of John did with Oral Tradition. They changed it to make it right.
Bart says gospels written closer to late 20s / early 30s carry more weight than gospels written further away.
2a) Jesus did not raise Lazarus from the dead. The author of Gospel of John made that up to make a point: Jesus is the Resurrection. Do not wait for the resurrection of the dead.
2b) What’s there to stop time from telling us Jesus was mistaken about being the Resurrection?
An entity that is part of the God composite cannot be mistaken. That’s a flawed theological notion. The Word, also, cannot be mistaken.
The author of John and the author of the Pauline letters come to the same conclusion: Have faith in Jesus.
Before Lazarus is raised from the dead, his sister says Lazarus will be raised from the dead on the last day.
There is no longer an apocalyptic message about the coming of the Son of Man, no crisis at the end of the world before being redeemed: now, it’s faith in Jesus.
Do you hear Paul?
The letters of Paul came before the Gospel of John …
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
The second edition of my book or my next book about the historical accuracy of the Bible must include Jesus, Apocalyptic Prophet by Bart D. Ehrman.
CONTRADICTION #1
BartDE
At Jesus’ trial before the Sanhedrin in Mark’s gospel, Jesus boldly states to the high priest, “You will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven.” That is, the end would come and the high priest would see it.
SCampbell
Matthew 10:28
Some of you will not taste death before you see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
BartDE
Luke changes Mark, no longer predicting the high priest will be alive to see this.
CONTRDICTION #2
BartDE
The gospel of John debunks the notion “there will be a resurrection of the dead” voiced by Martha, sister of Lazarus. Jesus contradicts her at John 11:25.
SCampbell
This is partially why the resurrection of Lazarus does not appear in Matthew, Mark, and Luke which cannot repeat John: do not expect the resurrection of the dead because I am the resurrection.
No judgement means God does not have to delegate judgement to Enoch or Jesus.
Yes on #1 and #2?
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189 Words
Posted Comment to Bart D.E.”s post.
For example, what?
Sometimes the discussion is constructed from his words in his books and my responses.
Sometimes the discussion is constructed from his recent posts.
Sometimes the discussion is my response to his post and his response to my response.
I am reading Bart’s book, Jesus, Apocalyptic Prophet. That is already mentioned in post #1 above.
It has three indicies.
I am also reading his recent posts, the post link is in this thread.
I also post his responses to me.
If I respond to his response, I post that too.
You’re asking for something already provided.
I am writing a layperson’s interpretation of the Gospels. I use two Greek linear Bibles and a few others. According to what I have seen as references to the Greek word for ‘coming’, it can also mean ‘going’. If you replace the word “going’ in place of ‘coming’, then the words of Jesus make more sense. He obviously knew His friend, John the Baptist had been killed for speaking the truth, and He knew it was just a matter of time before He met the same fate. So then His saying, “the Son of Man is about to GO in the glory of His Father with His Angels… Truly I say to you, some of those standing here shall not experience death, until they see the Son of Man GOING in His kingdom,” makes sense.
Perhaps a late night out by the scribe doing the translation caused a slip up. And now it is set in concrete.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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