Saleem, if you’re looking for absolute concrete certainty about what any human being thinks about something like this, let alone one who lived two millennia ago, who we have no writings from, and who is frequently misquoted–I don’t really know what to say.
It’s John’s gospel. John, more than any other evangelist, puts his own words in Jesus’ mouth. John’s Jesus really is John’s Jesus–a fictional character he uses as a mouthpiece–the historical Jesus means nothing to him. True to a lesser extent of the other gospels, but I think all of them did care about depicting the real man, Mark most of all.
So if you’re asking what Jesus meant by that, I don’t believe he ever said it. If you’re asking what the character in that gospel means, I think he means the Holy Spirit, but what that means is something people have debated for a very long time, and will go on doing so after we’re all dead. Maybe you can get the Holy Spirit to explain it to you then? Offer to buy it a drink. With a name like that, you’d have to figure on an appreciation for good liquor.
If this is based, however loosely, on preserved sayings of Jesus about what was going to happen after he died, it would presumably refer to the Son of Man. And we don’t know what that means either.
Robert said
Saleem Pasha said
Thanks Godspell. However, I am looking for some certainty. I don’t believe its referring to Holy spirit as everyone had and has holy spirit. Apart from that John 16:7 says comforter not come until Jesus goes away.. Does that mean, Jesus didn’t have holy spirit?John himself identifies the advocate/comforter/intercessor/someone summoned (παράκλητος, parakletos) as the Holy Spirit and as the ‘Spirit of truth’:
14,26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you.
15,26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth (cf also 14,17) who comes from the Father, he will testify on my behalf.
In John 14,16, Jesus had already referred to this as “another Advocate, to be with you forever. Thus it sounds as if the the Advocate performs a comparable role as Jesus himself in his absence. As you can see above, God (14,26) and Jesus (15,26 and also in 16,7) will send the Advocate to them and he testifies on Jesus’ behalf so I would not assume that John thought of Jesus as ‘not having the holy spirit’. It sounds more like the Advocate in some ways takes the place of Jesus when he is gone. Something like that.
In 1 John 2,1 the author refers to Jesus himself as an advocate with the Father for those who have sinned.
Thanks Robert for your explanation. I think, I can safely say that from Bible, we cant really pin down “whom” Jesus is talking about.
godspell said
Saleem, if you’re looking for absolute concrete certainty about what any human being thinks about something like this, let alone one who lived two millennia ago, who we have no writings from, and who is frequently misquoted–I don’t really know what to say.It’s John’s gospel. John, more than any other evangelist, puts his own words in Jesus’ mouth. John’s Jesus really is John’s Jesus–a fictional character he uses as a mouthpiece–the historical Jesus means nothing to him. True to a lesser extent of the other gospels, but I think all of them did care about depicting the real man, Mark most of all.
So if you’re asking what Jesus meant by that, I don’t believe he ever said it. If you’re asking what the character in that gospel means, I think he means the Holy Spirit, but what that means is something people have debated for a very long time, and will go on doing so after we’re all dead. Maybe you can get the Holy Spirit to explain it to you then? Offer to buy it a drink. With a name like that, you’d have to figure on an appreciation for good liquor.
If this is based, however loosely, on preserved sayings of Jesus about what was going to happen after he died, it would presumably refer to the Son of Man. And we don’t know what that means either.
Thanks Godspell. I agree with you that we dont have concrete evidence as to whom Jesus is referring to.
Saleem Pasha said
Thanks Damian. Are you quoting from Bible that Jesus was referring to Holy Spirit?
14:26 says its the holy spirit – “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you”
Its the holy spirits acting as the spirit of truth testifying about Jesus that’s new.
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