Hi Bart
My 74 year old father has, in recent years, become a fundamentalist Seventh Day Adventist. This is distressing for us, his family. I’m wondering if you have any arguments that ‘might’ reach such people.
He believes the full conspiracy. The papacy is the Anti-Christ that will soon introduce “Sunday laws” as the mark of the beast, The Book of Daniel and Revelation combine to give a countdown to doomsday, Ellen White is a prophet and so on. I placed the topic here due to the specific relevance of these bible books to Seventh Day Adventists eschatology. I won’t go into detail here of the specific bible bible claims as you are almost certainly aware of them. It gets boring pretty fast.
He has always been a fundamentalist Christian (we are all atheists/agnostics/former Christians) We love him very much and try to debate the point but nothing gets through. I wondered if you had any special kryptonite we could throw his way. I doubt that his mind could be changed but I’m always looking for ways to even slightly mute his fanaticism. It is fuelled by hours of youtube videos that spew pseudo information.
Most people here would be unaware of what these people actually believe so perhaps it is also useful for others.
regards David
ps love the blog, been a member for years but rarely come here. I have to change that!
While you directed your question at Dr. Ehrman, this is an open forum, so I trust that a reply from others is not out of line.
There are many sources for disagreement with SDAs, but offhand I don’t see how that will be much help. There is rarely any logical argument that works in these kinds of cases, to wrest people back from believing things that are inherently irrational. The SDA began as a movement called Millerism, which thought that the world was going to end in 1844. You may have noticed that said date has come and gone, and the world still goes on. Their adherents somehow survived what was called the Great Disappointment and learned nothing from the lesson. If the failure of their central prophecies isn’t persuasive that they are wrong, I do not see what would be.
I suspect that the SDAs may be getting a bit of a boost these days, with 24/7 news channels constantly emphasizing and catastrophizing a world that certainly has a lot trouble and strife. With COVID and climate change and a country that is deeply divided on so many issues, the sense that the world is falling apart, if not exactly ending, is pervasive. Purely as a guess, I wonder if your father watches FOX news, or worse, OAN, both of which tend to stoke the fears of their viewership, and often by slanting their presentations. Even watching more mainstream news sources can hardly be very uplifting. I have often joked that the nightly news should be accompanied by a Greek chorus.
I can only wish you good luck.
JAS said
While you directed your question at Dr. Ehrman, this is an open forum, so I trust that a reply from others is not out of line.There are many sources for disagreement with SDAs, but offhand I don’t see how that will be much help. There is rarely any logical argument that works in these kinds of cases, to wrest people back from believing things that are inherently irrational. The SDA began as a movement called Millerism, which thought that the world was going to end in 1844. You may have noticed that said date has come and gone, and the world still goes on. Their adherents somehow survived what was called the Great Disappointment and learned nothing from the lesson. If the failure of their central prophecies isn’t persuasive that they are wrong, I do not see what would be.
I suspect that the SDAs may be getting a bit of a boost these days, with 24/7 news channels constantly emphasizing and catastrophizing a world that certainly has a lot trouble and strife. With COVID and climate change and a country that is deeply divided on so many issues, the sense that the world is falling apart, if not exactly ending, is pervasive. Purely as a guess, I wonder if your father watches FOX news, or worse, OAN, both of which tend to stoke the fears of their viewership, and often by slanting their presentations. Even watching more mainstream news sources can hardly be very uplifting. I have often joked that the nightly news should be accompanied by a Greek chorus.
I can only wish you good luck.
Thanks very much for your reply. You are correct that no argument is likely to work. I still keep trying though and sometimes feel I can knock him back a tiny bit temporarily. Yeah you are spot on. He loves news sources that stoke fear and create the impression of a world getting worse and worse. We live in Australia so things are thankfully far less divided. Almost everything he consumes though is a radical voice in the USA. Don’t get me wrong, I love the USA. I appreciate the comment.
JAS said
While you directed your question at Dr. Ehrman, this is an open forum, so I trust that a reply from others is not out of line.There are many sources for disagreement with SDAs, but offhand I don’t see how that will be much help. There is rarely any logical argument that works in these kinds of cases, to wrest people back from believing things that are inherently irrational. The SDA began as a movement called Millerism, which thought that the world was going to end in 1844. You may have noticed that said date has come and gone, and the world still goes on. Their adherents somehow survived what was called the Great Disappointment and learned nothing from the lesson. If the failure of their central prophecies isn’t persuasive that they are wrong, I do not see what would be.
I suspect that the SDAs may be getting a bit of a boost these days, with 24/7 news channels constantly emphasizing and catastrophizing a world that certainly has a lot trouble and strife. With COVID and climate change and a country that is deeply divided on so many issues, the sense that the world is falling apart, if not exactly ending, is pervasive. Purely as a guess, I wonder if your father watches FOX news, or worse, OAN, both of which tend to stoke the fears of their viewership, and often by slanting their presentations. Even watching more mainstream news sources can hardly be very uplifting. I have often joked that the nightly news should be accompanied by a Greek chorus.
I can only wish you good luck.
Robert said
Hi, moon dog. Bart does not usually comment on the Readers Forum, but maybe others here might be able to help. Personally I’m not familiar with 7th-Day Adventist beliefs. Best of luck.
thanks v much
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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