Dr. Bengston implied that it was not the energy of the healer having a direct cause and effect healing but something the healer was did psychically that effected the healing. I’ll explain it this way by example: I spin a top and the top is on the cement ground moving around; I’m not moving the top, I put it in motion.
Video of Spinning Tops
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Faith healing vs. Secular healing
There have been those who refused healing because it was a method “in the name of Jesus,” and others who refused healing because it was a method not in the name of medical doctors and hospitals, because it was a method not requiring “in the name of Jesus” or fasting.
To say, “This is my blood, drink it” is incorrect. To say, “This is my blood, let’s do a transfusion” is correct.
Would the Biblical Jesus’ method for healing have to incorporate steps/conditions from the method by which the rats with cancer were healed in order for the biblical, miraculous healings to be legitimate/beyond refutation?
“Ritual in the form of formalizing behavior or symbols of healing gets the same bad marks from Bengston and he is bent on deconstructing how the establishment holds to beliefs regarding how healing works.“
– from a review of Dr. Bengston’s recorded training course: “Hands-on-Healing: a Training Course in the Energy Cure”
Dr. William Bengston’s book is:
The Energy Cure: Unraveling the Mystery of Hands-On Healing
Interesting, Steefen
Bill Bengston has a limited number of publications in peer-reviwed journals: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
They are all in relatively obsucre journals, so I don’t think he has produced sufficient research of any quality to be taken seriously by the medical profession at large. However, the placebo effect is still not fully understood and, in amongst classical conditioning, and raised expectatations to reduce symtpoms, I do get feeling that in some cases there may be something more to it. ** you do not have permission to see this link **
If you are interested in this subject, some of the best evidence for the existence of parapsychological effects are reviewed by Dean Radin in his book ‘Real Magic’
Neurotheologian said
I agree, but there is always a danger of ‘throwing out the baby with the bath-water’ and, continuing with this metaphor, in the realm of claims for the supernatural / paraspsychological / mircalulous, the bath-water is very dirty.
The solution is to examine each claim on a case by case basis. But after so much disconfirmation and given the lack of even a single authenticated claim one wonders how long we can realistically sustain our interest. Perhaps it’s time to take the hint and move on.
I agree about examining each case on its merits or de-merits and I understand the sense of weariness and disappointment you hint at. I’ve personally seen many false claims. There is indeed a sense in which many of us ‘want to beleive’ and this is nowhere better seen than in charismatic evangelicals. “This generation [as all generations] seeks a sign……..” I myself have come to the view that nature itself, with its beauty and variety and the fact that it folllows laws, is itself a miracle, so I don’t need ‘a sign’. For me “the heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge” However, I think that there is more to this world than our philosophy dreams of and miracles occasionally do occur. Dean Radin’s book is worth a read in this respect. I also think that consciousness, though highly correlated in every aspect with brain function, is not explained by brain function and is itslelf an everyday evidence of the supernaural that we take for granted.
I think that there is more to this world than our philosophy dreams…
I have no doubt whatsoever that there is more to this world than we know, perhaps more than we can ever know. However…
A parable for you-
I want to meet a person named Joe. I’m told Joe has all the answers. Joe can tell me what I should do and how I should behave. But Joe doesn’t live in my village. When I ask about him I’m told even though no one has ever met him everyone knows about him but that he lives over in the next village. I want to actually meet him so I go over to the next village. In the next village when I ask where he lives I’m told even though no one has ever met him everyone knows about him but that he lives over in the next village. I’m surprised but I want to actually meet Joe so I go over to the next village. In the next village when I ask where he lives I’m told even though no one has ever met him everyone knows about him but that he lives over in the next village. So I go over to the next village…
Nuerotheologian I think you see the point of my little parable. How many villages do you travel to before you give up? I want to meet Joe but all I ever meet are people who think Joe is real and lives somewhere, anywhere, just not here.
As arrogant and presumptuous as it might be, I am simply tired of searching. I am not interested in a second hand revelation. I want my own. If Joe is real he knows where to find me. I don’t know where to find him.
A great little parable Stephen. I get it, I feel it, I’ve been there – I mean, who the hell hasn’t?! It’s real life, but it’s also the stuff of nightmares. I don’t know how to answer to it. All I know is that I no longer wake of screaming where the F is Joe? I not longer feel it. I tell you one thing though, I reckon it was worse for the disciples when Jesus got crucified and later disappeaerd for the rest of their earthly lives.
Neurotheologian
Interesting, Steefen
If you are interested in this subject, some of the best evidence for the existence of parapsychological effects are reviewed by Dean Radin in his book Real Magic.
Steefen
Bill Bengston and his mentor were not “real magicians”. Your recommendation is not appropriate.
Steefen said
Bill Bengston and his mentor were not “real magicians”. Your recommendation is not appropriate.
Steefan said
The rats given cancer and cured of cancer happened under lab conditions and they were repeatable.
You have no grounds non-acceptance.
Steefan
First of all, you should be aware that I believe in the supernatural – I’m on your side in many ways! Before deciding that my recommendation was ‘inappropriate’ because of the the terms ‘magic’ or ‘real magic’, you need to understand that Radin uses the term ‘magic’ deliberately to be provocative. Radin is a sceintist who believes in the supernatural and produces some good evidence and arguments for supernaural events including healings very similar to that which Bill Bengston claims. Try not be so defensive and jump to conclusions without assessing what I have put forward with a bit more thoroughness.
Secondly, even though I suspect there is something in Bengston’s claims (as I have previously indicated), there are many potential grounds for ‘non-acceptance’ as you put it. Just because an experment has been repeated ‘under lab condtions’, it doesn’t mean the results are beyond any doubt! The scientific method is far more complicated than that. I haven’t read the full papers, but here are just a few potential issues: the observations may not have been blinded and thus open to observer bias, the conditions of the animals being given the healing treatment may have been different in other ways, which may have influenced the outcome. The reporting of the pathology and intepretation of the results may may not have been blinded and may have been biased consciously or unconsciously by the prior beliefs of Bengston or his co-workers (despite his claim to have been surprised) etc etc. Why were the papers pulished in obscure journals? Perhaps they were rejected by more mainline journals because of methodological issues such as the ones I have mentioned.
All this doesn’t mean I am rejecting the results (as I have said), it just means I am being cautions about ‘accepting’ them unreservedly. It is for these reasons that for results like this to be accepted, such experiments need to be repeated in other labs by other scientists.
Best wishes
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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