I know Bart has written on this topic, but I wonder what other books there are on this subject (Canon formation)? Evangelicals are dead set on passing off their self-confident narrative that the formation of the Canon was totally objective. What a preposterous idea, and yet they persist. What books do you know of that deal with this subject from a critical perspective? The history of evangelical pundits seems to be a history of preying on ignorance.
Thanks for the recommendations friends. This points me exactly in the direction I want to go. 🙂
“Canonicity is determined by God. It is not the antiquity, authenticity, or religious community that makes a book canonical or authoritative. A book is valuable because it is canonical, and not canonical because it is or was considered valuable. Its authority is established by God and merely discovered by God’s people.” Norman Geisler, The Canonicity of the Bible, Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics, Baker Book House, 1999
“Canonicity is determined by God. It is not the antiquity, authenticity, or religious community that makes a book canonical or authoritative. A book is valuable because it is canonical, and not canonical because it is or was considered valuable. Its authority is established by God and merely discovered by God’s people.” Norman Geisler, The Canonicity of the Bible, Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics, Baker Book House, 1999
Leaving aside the utter circularity of the assertion, how can anyone possibly know this?
Stephen: “Leaving aside the utter circularity of the assertion, how can anyone possibly know this?”
By the magical power of God, of course. 🙂
Going through my library I found an interesting book I bought several years ago:
** you do not have permission to see this link **
jerseyflight said
Going through my library I found an interesting book I bought several years ago:** you do not have permission to see this link **
I always find these Christian believers who wish to distance themselves from the Bible to be very interesting. It’s perfectly understandable but without the Bible where would they be? I mean, unless they’re claiming some private revelation what can they know of Christ outside the Bible?
Stephen said
I always find these Christian believers who wish to distance themselves from the Bible to be very interesting. It’s perfectly understandable but without the Bible where would they be? I mean, unless they’re claiming some private revelation what can they know of Christ outside the Bible?
Stephen,
I’ll quote from Dr. Ehrman (today): “It’s a completely modern idea that you need the Bible to know anything about God. Throughout Christian history, very few people have thought that.”
Before reading the above today, I’d wanted to answer that many of us are privileged to always have been surrounded by examples of Jesus’ teachings as demonstrated by family, friends and others. To actually see the personification of His teachings is even better than reading the Bible.
Judith actually I think Prof Ehrman is making a different point than I am. What I’m saying is that for modern Christians Jesus is a character in a book even if they do refer to him like a neighbor who lives down the street and who drops in all the time for coffee and a chat. If all we do is hear the stories told from the pulpit and never read the NT ourselves the stories were originally acts of literature.
So, sure if you think Jesus is a real person you can talk about him like he exists apart from the written accounts in the NT but in what sense is this true?
Stephen,
Sorry it’s taken so long (taxes!) but, if you want to know in what sense is it true can we relate to Jesus as though he were a real person apart from the NT accounts, it’s in his teachings. Trying to do as he would do in our place is contrary to the way it works in the real world but then when we do, it’s as though we are guided and strengthened in a spiritual way. I know it sounds weird but it’s as though Jesus lives through us at times and we do come to feel that we know him.
Judith said
Stephen,Sorry it’s taken so long (taxes!) but, if you want to know in what sense is it true can we relate to Jesus as though he were a real person apart from the NT accounts, it’s in his teachings. Trying to do as he would do in our place is contrary to the way it works in the real world but then when we do, it’s as though we are guided and strengthened in a spiritual way. I know it sounds weird but it’s as though Jesus lives through us at times and we do come to feel that we know him.
Judith I understand your point of view. I felt the same way when I was a believer. But what you’ve done is to internalize Jesus’s teachings to such a degree that you feel able to act them out in your life. Which is perfectly fine. But you ultimately derive those teachings from the text. And Jesus is real to you and you feel like you know him because of the power of your active imagination responding to the character of Jesus as portrayed in the gospels.
Many people feel they know the characters in Shakespeare and Homer and Jane Austen. This is the power of literature. The only difference is that folks don’t consider those writings to be sacred scripture.
Judith please don’t take my post simply as an attack on your beliefs. True I don’t share them but I can certainly testify that when one reads the gospels you do come away feeling that you have encountered a personality. Even an old unbeliever like myself can accept that type of resurrection – when Jesus comes alive for us through words on the printed page.
Judith I’m not sure what you mean by “things happening through you”. But like everyone else I carry the past around with me inside. I was raised to live a certain way, to believe certain things I believe no longer. But that person is still there even though I view him from a distance.
“…things happening…” means continuous ways to take part in doing for others that seem particularly suited for us to do. It’s as though our whole lives are programmed for accomplishing whatever that might be. I wonder if I should become as you (no longer a believer) would all that end? That’s why I asked you.
Judith, it’s not the way they tell you it is. Never have I loved life more deeply than when I realized how brief and fragile it is. Never have I felt more compassion than when I realized all my fellows share the same fate. Never have I felt more responsible than when I realized that no one was going to swoop down and rescue me from my own foolishness. Never have I felt the pains of loss more than when I realized that some partings are forever.
What you say is profound and compelling. Though I love the way faith provides not only a sense of being plugged into mystery and wonder but even more than that, a guide (Jesus) for how to be, I can understand now that those who are not believers can have their own valuable world view.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert