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Revelation and Prophecies
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bigelephant543

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April 9, 2015 - 3:33 am

Hi Everyone,

I am a newbie so if I am posting this in the wrong place I apologize ahead of time ;) I have a question regarding Bible prophecy that I was hoping Bart and any group members could answer/comment on.  I came across a website about mathematical Bible prophecies (prophecies from the Bible that supposedly “predict” future events).  I do know from reading Bart’s book: The Bible-A Historical and Literary Introduction (great book, by the way!) that prophets in the Bible were describing what was going on in their own time and they were not describing future events that happen(ed) hundreds of years later. However, when I come across these “mathematical” calculations that someone who believes the end is near concocts based on the Bible it makes me pause and wonder if there is any truth to it. So here is the rapture website’s math prophecy which they base on the day-year principle:

They start with 1948 (year Israel declared independence) and subtract 1260 (they cite Revelation 12:6 which mentions this number).  This comes out to 688 AD–the year of the founding of the Dome of the Rock.  Next they cite Revelation 11:2 (which mentions 42 months).  They take 42 months and multiply it by 30.44 days (to account for Julian calendar) which equals 1278.5 days.  They then subtract 1967 (year Israel got holy city back) from 1278.5.  This comes out to 688.5–again the year of the founding of the Dome of the Rock.  According to the website, “the Dome of the Rock is God’s symbol for Islam in prophecy and Islam is the subject  of Daniel’s time of the end.”  Just wondering if there is any truth to any of this? I am a recovering Christian–but these end times prophecy things start to freak me out! lol

Jenny

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gmatthews

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April 9, 2015 - 4:34 am

Mathematics is a wonderful tool.  We built the pyramids with mathematics.  You can make numbers say anything you want depending on what you want to say.  Politicians manipulate numbers all the time to make themselves look good and their opponents look bad.  When the economy is down the party in power manipulates numbers to make it look like their opponents caused all the trouble and the opponent does the opposite.  When times are good one side talks up the good numbers while ignoring the bad.  It’s all just a shell game.

The same is true with this prophecy nonsense.  These guys manipulate numbers only because they like the attention and the power they think it gives them over people.  Maybe they’re actually foolish enough to believe it themselves.  Look at all the craziness with the Mayan calendar where the world was predicted to end in 2012.  Did it happen?  No.  Hal Lindsey wrote a best selling book in 1970 predicting the end of the world.  While his prediction didn’t require a calculator to figure out he said an interpretive reading of Matthew 24 made him believe the Rapture would happen in the 1980s and some people further predicted it would happen in 1988.  Yet, we’re still here and no Rapture.  Lindsey is still out there peddling his end times predictions.

Various Christians have been predicting the end of the world for the past 2000 years.  Yet, we’re still here.  Even for Christians the Bible says that Jesus said no man knoweth the hour!  If these guys predicting the end times are really Christians then how do they know something Jesus said they couldn’t?

For your particular example the end result of your calculations is 688.  What is that supposed to mean?  What does it tell anyone?

The way farces like this work is that you start with a number that has some symbolic value and then perform calculations on that number to work towards a second number with symbolic value and say VOILA! here’s proof the world is going to end!  Getting from the first number to the second number is relatively easy.  Just figure out what numbers you can add, subtract, multiple or divide it with and then find those numbers in the Bible in some context.  It doesn’t matter what context because people will believe just about anything.  Remember what P.T. Barnum said.

In your specific examples here are the numbers and how they get manipulated:

1948: starting number, highly symbolic since it is the founding of modern day Israel

1260: mentioned twice in Revelation, equals 3 and a half years times 30 (days in a month in a lunar calendar)—  NOTE: this is NOT the number of days in a month in the Julian calendar which varies.  This is important as shown below.

42: this one is highly insignificant (as far as I know) and was obviously chosen because it let’s you get from point A to point B in the calculations.  It does have meaning in the Bible however.  I suggest Googling it for more info.

1278: you get here by multiplying the 42 above by 30.44 which you say that they say is the number of days in the Julian calender averaged out..  Seriously?  This is where you should start laughing at them.  Why is the lunar calendar used above, but now we switch over to the Julian calendar?  Because you can’t get from point A to point B without playing a shell game with the numbers.  BUT, and here is where you can toss the whole thing out…..the 30.44 number is wrong.  In a non leap year there are 30.42 days in a month averaged out.  Maybe you say they meant a leap year (why would they?), but that still doesn’t work out.  I can’t figure out how they got 30.44 although I’m sure they have a perfectly rational explanation.  /eyeroll.

I don’t see any point in reviewing the rest.  The main thing to understand is that the Bible is full of numbers that have meaning within their own context.  It’s easy when someone says they want to perform 2 or 3 mathematical operations on a starting number and get to some other number that maybe they say is the year of the end of the world.  All they have to do is flip through the Bible and find the numbers to make the calculations work.  And, if you find yourself stuck and can’t find the right number just start making up stuff like the 30.44.  What are the chances anyone will double check the match?  Hopefully from what I’ve said you can understand how these guys and every one like them making these “prophetic predictions” of the end of the world are charlatans.

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achase79

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April 9, 2015 - 4:04 pm

Clearly no one is reading Revelation literally and claiming that the things in Revelation have come to pass (they haven’t). People instead interpret (with great imagination) Revelation to apply to a great variety of situations, ignoring most of the rest of Revelation (and the whole issue of the apocalyptic genre).

For prophecy or predictions to be valid, they must be specified before the event in question and they need to be specific. In addition, you can’t just count the hits – you have to count the misses. You can’t count some “prophecy” that someone cobbles out of disparate texts and contexts in Revelation and ignore that the Son of Man has not returned to judge each according to his works (Mt 15, etc.). According to the Gospels, Jesus made specific prophecies about the near-term coming of the end of the age and the return of the Son of Man, claims repeated by Paul and other authors of the New Testament Books. In Revelation, John says that these things must happen “soon”, and that Jesus is coming quickly (taxus). These have been falsified. This renders the likelihood of apocalyptic “prophecies” from the book of Revelation being true quite unlikely.

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bigelephant543

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April 10, 2015 - 3:35 pm

Thanks so much to both of you for responding.   :)  I can see how those who believe in the rapture/end of times can manipulate Bible passages to agree with their ideas.  It’s also true about the hits/misses.  They never count the misses!

 

Jenny

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Bgipson

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April 14, 2015 - 1:47 am

Jen: I’m with the others. People convince themselves of all kinds of things with all sorts of half baked theories and BIG COINCIDENCES, rhetorical wind falls etc. 

If you’re interested in understanding Revelations, I would suggest you pick up Elaine Pagels book.

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bigelephant543

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April 15, 2015 - 2:35 am

I can see how they are manipulating numbers and coincidences.  I am no longer a christian and it has been a process getting through the years of brainwashing.  But reading scholarly books, articles,and blogs like these and talking to other rationally minded people has really helped! 

I will check the E. Pagels book out.  Thanks :)  

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