(16 votes, average: 4.69 out of 5)
Loading...This is the second guest post by Judy Siker, who explained in her previous post about her upbringing as a Christian in the South and then her move into the academic study of the Bible from a critical perspective. If you recall, Judy was my student in the (very secular!) graduate program in New Testament/Early Christianity here at UNC, where she did both a Masters and PhD in the field, focusing, in her dissertation, on the socio-historical background to the Gospel of Matthew, in particular as that involved the relations of Jews and Christians in the author’s community. She then had a rich and varied teaching career in a range of schools — private liberal arts, Catholic university, and Baptist seminary, among them!
In this follow up post Judy lays out her understanding of what the Bible is (among other things, a book that asks compelling questions about matters of faith) and is not (a book that gives us all the incontrovertible answers), partly in response to comments and questions she received. She is willing once more to address any others that come her way.
Again, she’ll be happy to respond to your comments.
Judy Siker is author of Who is Jesus? What a Difference a Lens Makes.
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… and you still believe? Part Two
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Wonderful posts. Thank you!
This atheist is impressed with your two posts. Can’t and won’t argue with you. Thanks for them.
I have found both of your two posts intriguing and enlightening. As a person who was raised in a very conservative evangelical tradition, now nearly 70 years old with more questions than ever, you helped me understand how someone can really understand what the Bible is and isn’t and still believe. While I’m not in that place, I see how someone might be. Thank you!
As a believer and a scholar, what are your thoughts on the afterlife, i.e., the concepts of reward and punishment, Heaven and Hell? (a lot to ask for in one post I realize but a brief summary maybe?). I’ll be ordering your study, “Who is Jesus? What a difference a lens makes,” through presbyterianwomen.org. Is the issue addressed in the study?
Thanks for you questions. I apologize for the slow response. Somehow this post got lost in the crowd and I am just now seeing it. I find the afterlife to be an enormous mystery and rather than try to imagine a specific depiction of heaven or hell, I think in terms of greater concepts. For example, heaven to me might be expressed as the ongoing realization of the presence of God/love and hell the absence of that. I hope you enjoy the book. You won’t find an articulation of heaven or hell in that one, but you will find a study of how the various gospel writers, Paul, and even some non-canonical texts understand and present Jesus.
Do you have other writers you follow in addition to Bart?
Oh, so many. Too many to list and it, of course, depends on what I am interested in reading about. Here are three I enjoy for very different reasons: Amy-Jill Levine, Luke Timothy Johnson, and Richard Rohr.
Do you belive in the virgin birth or the resurrection? Thanks for your very thought-provoking pieces. You raise good Q’s!
Thank you for commenting. I apologize for this delayed response. Several comments got lost in the crowd and I am just now seeing them. To answer your question, my thoughts on the virgin birth and the resurrection are not based in a literal understanding of either. That said, however, I do believe that there is something rather “miraculous” about both. I’d be happy to talk with you more about this. It would take more space than I have here to explain.
In this post you, more than once, speak of being a woman of faith but you give no indication of what that ‘faith’ entails (be it a body of beliefs or a question of trust). At one point you venture to flesh out an understanding of the existence of ‘some greater force than you or I’ and to this force you give the name God. However, at no point in your writing do you mention Jesus or Christ and so I wonder why you consider that this belief in (a) God is, in fact, necessarily, in any way, Christian.
You also in one paragraph speak of salvation and muse ‘whatever that means?’. Have you never been able to or at least tried to define for yourself what that concept means within the scope of your being a Christian?
Thanks for sharing all of this. I’m struggling a bit with your context. Philosophically, I can understand people who “believe that there exists some greater force than you or I . . . ” and I can accept your use of the term “woman of faith.”
How does this translate into your identifying as “Christian” and a Presbyterian, and not something more religiously general, such as Theist?
Perhaps this touches on what you mention the post is not, so I understand if it isn’t appropriate to respond.
(I was between the ages of 18 and 28 a believer in the theology of Sun Myung Moon and his Unfication Church. I became a materialistic thinker after that but got an MA in the study of the Anthropology of Religion after I left the church. I am fascinated by the role of beliefs in culture. Much of what you write about in this post is reflective of those studies).
wpoe54: “How does this translate into your identifying as “Christian” and a Presbyterian, and not something more religiously general, such as Theist?”
Me: Yes, I found myself wondering the same thing.
I’m late to the party, but this is part of my issues with the post and disposition of many theists it reflects. While your post seems well thought out and sincere, I see a number strawman / false equivalent arguments.
– “All we have is words” diminishes the scientific process:
There is observation through the senses: sight, sound smell taste and touch. Infants learn the texture of many things by placing those items in their mouth. The reason you have to keep children from the bleach/cleaning fluid/window cleaner is they can’t read “lethal” or “fatal”, and they’re curious; they wish to learn/be enlightened/discover. I find data I observe more reliable than data I’m told.
– Christianity isn’t believable because it isn’t historical or solve all the mysteries of existence:
That’s not my main reason for doubt. It’s about making claims and if I am convinced of their truth/validity. If one claims to have 90 sports cars, yet are unable to produce any evidence (keys, pics), the claim seems doubtful to me; and not because the person making it hasn’t solved every mystery about the world. Now if one claims omniscience (knowing all, thus nothing is a mystery)…
Thank you. I appreciate your openness and your position. In lots of ways, it mirrors something of mine, though knowledgable about the critical approach to the Bible, even after 55 years of ordained ministry, I am only a student. Bless you.
Thank you. We all remain students for life, I think.
Thank you, Dr Judy, for these reasoned and reflective insights. And thank you, Bart, for allowing such an open and respectful forum.
Thank you for reading and for your gracious comments.
Rev. Dr. Siker,
Just so I’m clear, are you saying that your way of continuing to be a believer is to stay immersed in questions? I’m struggling to understand what exactly you continue believe from the Christian tradition, or why.
Second, when you said “In my tradition we call this force God”, do you consider the god of Abraham to be the, *THE* supreme being of all there is? To me there is no way to think the Bible was given to us in any way by a supreme being, let alone think it describes a supreme being. Infinite punishment, kill every living thing, show them no mercy, stone to death adulterers and unruly kids and people who pick up sticks on the Sabbath, bloodbloodbloodblood, failed prophecies, I could go on and on and on. That’s when my fundamental church of Christ faith dissolved – I just don’t see the god of Abraham as a supreme being, but rather a very man-made deity.
Thanks for your posts.
Thank you for your comments. Yes, continuing to live in the questions is very much a part of my continuing to adhere to my faith tradition.
I understand why you do not see the god of Abraham as a supreme being as you observe the atrocities described in the Hebrew scriptures. I view the God of the OT and the God of the NT to be an expression of the same God, but it is important to me to remember that the Bible was written by humans. It is an expression of their understanding of God in their lives and it is an honest and sometimes brutal interpretation. But there was something they experienced that led them to believe that there was a force greater than themselves guiding them. I don’t agree that God is a man-made deity, but I do believe that the human attempts to capture God are just that–human attempts.
Respectfully, Rev. Dr., when I listed “infinite punishment”, that was meant to be a NT reference. And I deliberately didn’t list Revelation because, well, I thought everyone sees the god of Revelation exactly, precisely as the god of Abraham. The god of the OT. He will commit atrocities in the future. The blood will be how many feet deep??? Same god. Hebrew scriptures AND first century Christianity scriptures. It’s the same god. The one promised in the future is the same one defined in the OT.
I agree the Bible was written by humans who were writing what they believed. From front to back, the authors of the Bible agreed that the god of Abraham was the god of atrocities. He just took a few hundred years off.
Rev. Dr., I’m not asking you to capture god. At least, I don’t think I am because I’m not sure what that means. I’m asking if you believe the god of Abraham is THE supreme being, should one exist?
Thanks for continuing our “conversation.” I understand your perspective, as you have expressed it, and the aspects of the biblical text that give rise to it. In answer to your final question about my belief concerning the god of Abraham, I would say this. I believe that the god of Abraham (and Isaac and Jacob and Jesus and Paul and …) is a supreme being which has become real to all of these named (and unnamed) characters in the Bible and on up to today. Just how that god is made manifest in the human world is (as you and I seem to agree) known to us today through human attempts to capture this “being” in words. All they had then and all we have now are words and words will always be insufficient but interesting and valuable attempts to comprehend what lies outside ourselves.
Thank you, Rev. Dr. for your time and energy with these 2 posts and all your responses.
While I am neither an academic nor a cleric, you have captured my approach to the Bible exactly. I too was brought up in the church (Lutheran) but was taught to be a seeker and to question anything and everyone by my father who was an academic. I also come from a family of clerics who do not believe in questioning the Bible. Therefore, I am both an avid seeker and practitioner of my faith.
Thank you for your posts. I thoroughly enjoyed them and saved them to read again and again.
Pauline
Thank you for your comments. I am glad these posts resonate with you.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and personal insights/journey. I guess I approach the ultimate questions more from a scientific angle, at least in attempting to understand “what’s going on” – but I agree with those who think this Universe we live in cries out for an explanation. There is indeed a mystery at the heart of existence that perhaps will always be beyond our ability to comprehend. I think our individual existences must have something to do with our growth, learning, or evolution – spiritual, psychic or whatever term for our innermost being we wish to use. Perhaps the real trick is to be comfortable with the ambiguity and to live in the questions, as you say.
Thank you for your comments. I am indeed a real advocate for living the questions. In fact, one of my favorite quotes on this subject comes from the late nineteenth/early twentieth century Austrian poet, Rainer Maria Rilke, who wrote: “Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers which cannot be given you because yo would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.” It doesn’t completely translate into our discussion but in large part it does. I actually think if we are not questioning we are not growing, not learning and without that, life would be so dull.
I really like how you refer to your faith development as “living in the questions”, that makes alot of sense to me, thank you!
Thank you.
I think you are running up against the warning expressed in James: “But ask in faith, never doubting. . . .” There are many who take these words literally, insisting that you are not allowed to doubt (and these days, trying to put that prohibition into law).
Another problem is that Christianity demands faith as its basis; works come secondary. This seems to be to be behind the inability of your interlocutors to understand how you can doubt and still have faith.
It’s a constant journey. Good luck with it!
Thank you so much for your willingness to share your personal story and approach. I am very grateful for what you have shared.
I also grew up going to church. My upbringing seems to have been quite a bit different in that my father was a fundamentalist preacher with a doctoral degree from a fundamentalist institution. Like Mr. Ehrman, I attended the Moody Bible Institute.
Now, twenty years later, I have faith in the greater force that we call God. Over the years, my faith in God has grown all the while realizing that I neither agree with nor understand a tradition that demands neat and tidy answers to all of life’s messy questions.
I am at the point where I want to learn from and study the Bible while living in the questions. However, I do not have the time or requisite education to engage in textual criticism. I am wondering if there are any authors or books you would recommend to help me develop my approach to and understanding of the Scriptures. Also, do you have any general bits of advice you could offer.
Thank you for your comments. I apologize for this delay in responding but I have had some technical issues and am going back through the comments and finding some I had replied to that did not post. That said, I applaud your continuing quest and really believe that there is no one right way to comprehend these questions. Folks with neat and tidy answers make me nervous. I have a couple of ideas of people/books you could take a look at. In addition to Bart (and A BRIEF INTRODUCTION TO THE NEW TESTAMENT), I would add Luke Timothy Johnson (THE NEW TESTAMENT: A VERY SHORT INTRODUCTION); John Riches (THE BIBLE: A VERY SHORT INTRODUCTION. Additionally, since you seem to be searching, I would suggest Richard Rohr. Two of my favorites of his are FALLING UPWARD and SILENT COMPASSION. Happy reading!
In the early 1970s I was teaching at a liberal arts college affiliated with an evangelical denomination. We typically had a major figure from higher ed do a short workshop for faculty. One year it was Earl McGrath, if my memory is right. He made an interesting comment about higher ed, which I jotted down on a piece of scrap paper, put in a book, and forgot. Years later it fell out of the book and I liked it so much that to this day it is part of my email signature line. It goes like this: “Ask questions, seek answers, question the answers, question the questions.”
Very well put, in my opinion!
Thank you Dr Siker for sharing your thoughts. I particularly liked the Hallmark Shop analogy and your description of the Bible as a literary expression of the struggles of the ancients to get to grips with their notion of God. Brilliant!
Thanks.
Judy,
Thank you for the post. I have struggled with all the anti-[x] rhetoric between religions and against seekers. The various critical methods that have been done on the Bible, especially since the time of David F. Strauss, have shown me that there is still much to be discerned about all the mysteries the Bible presents us. Many of my questions on the Bible and God/Jesus have acceptable “we don’t know” answers – an answer that would not be accepted by me in the past, but I happily accept that answer now and have been able to develop some personal theories that I can support, with God (…and pending further archeological evidence.) The hard part, at first, was dealing with the realization that I had absorbed many unsupportable views that were also inflexible or intolerant. There is still much to be learned through historical and modern lenses. My hope is that someday soon one will be able to say that they accept things like the birth narrative or walking on water as a metaphor and still be seen/accepted as a Christian.
In a number of Christian circles one can say those things now.
Thank you for the blogpost. I am not a Christian, although I was raised as one attending Catholic school, Mass every morning before class. I like reading what is, in my opinion, honest NT scholarship: Raymond Brown and John P. Meier come to mind.
The only sentence I have an issue with is where you write: “… this body of writings that not only has survived all the centuries but has also survived all our pushing and probing, our analysis and dissections.” That “body of writings” has artificially survived in its current form because it has been protected through the centuries by an armor put up by people afraid of losing a ‘certainty’. If the ‘body of writings’ had truly been submitted centuries ago to “analysis and dissections”, its current composition would be quite different from what it is today and more like what the authors intended. Perhaps, even with the bonus of additional views (gospels, etc) in an expanded canon.
Interesting observation. I see it differently, however. I don’t think it has “artificially survived” because of protection of the kind you describe. And it is anachronistic to think it could have been submitted to the scrutiny you suggest when you suggest it because we can’t be pre-enlightenment thinkers before the Enlightenment. And the talk of authorial intentionality is tricky. I am not convinced we can recover the authors’ intent. Brown and Meier are fine choices for reading and who’s to keep us from exploring those non-canonical gospels? Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Thank you so much for your willingness to share your personal story and approach. I am very grateful for what you have shared.
I also grew up going to church. My upbringing seems to have been quite a bit different in that my father was a fundamentalist preacher with a doctoral degree from a fundamentalist institution. Like Dr. Ehrman, I attended the Moody Bible Institute.
Now, twenty years later, I have faith in the greater force that we call God. Over the years, my faith in God has grown all the while realizing that I neither agree with nor understand a tradition that demands neat and tidy answers to all of life’s messy questions.
I am at the point where I want to learn from and study the Bible while living in the questions. However, I do not have the time or requisite education to engage in textual criticism. I am wondering if there are any authors or books you would recommend to help me develop my approach to and understanding of the Scriptures. Also, do you have any general bits of advice you could offer.
Thank you for your comments. I am happy that you want to continue the quest and are searching for some conversation partners, so to speak. Three authors (and their books) come to mind as good places to start. Of course, Bart Ehrman! I think his book A BRIEF INTRODUCTION TO THE NEW TESTAMENT (2020) would be a great place to start. I also think you would enjoy the work of Luke Timothy Johnson and his book, THE NEW TESTAMENT: A VERY SHORT INTRODUCTION (2010), would be good. Finally, John Riches’ book, THE BIBLE: A VERY SHORT INTRODUCTION (2022) would help with more than just the NT. My best advice is to keep your heart and mind open and enjoy the journey!
Reading and studying what biblical scholars have written and said has given me a deeper appreciation for the Bible and bolstered my faith.
I remember a speech someone gave about life and faith. He said some people enter religion to escape mystery while others enter religion to pursue mystery. He said pursuing mystery is healthier than attempting to escape it.
Thank you Dr. Siker for your wonderful post.
Thank you for your comments.
“…all we have are words…” and your words have come closer than you might think in “capturing” all that I have been thinking, believing, and feeling about the Bible these past six decades. Thank you for your very helpful words!
Thank you. Happy that my words resonated with you.
Wow! I’ve never met a former Moonie in the wild. Congrats on your escape!
I came to this blog post with basically the same question about Dr. Siker’s faith tradition, and was a little disappointed that she chose not to dive into more specifics on this topic (but obviously respect her privacy and decision not to share those details).
I know a lot of Jewish people who are more “spiritual than religious”, adopting a vague theist or deist outlook. But still identify as Jewish for the rich cultural significance it holds, and even continue to practice many of the traditions of Judaism as a way of ‘grounding’ themselves.
Perhaps Judy’s experience is something like that? It doesn’t appear she was ever abused by her church, like so many of us who were raised in more dogmatic Christian denominations. The bible was often used as a cudgel to control us, and once we learned how flawed that book is, attempting to gain anything of value from it feels challenging.
I’d be fascinated to hear where Dr Siker stands on issues like the resurrection, ransom, etc- things that are usually held central to Christian belief.
Thank You for your thoughts. This has been help full for me in coming to grips with my religious family. I will try to live in the questions. Lets bring on more questions. Thanks again.
Indeed. Bring on the questions and let’s be bold enough to live in them.
Thank you very much for this post. Our childhood church backgrounds are very similar. The church I was raised in from infancy was a Baptist Church which was mentored by what was then the California Baptist Seminary that was in Covina California, then became the American Baptist Seminary of the West till it was consolidated into the campus at Berkley. One of my still closest friends father was the dean and Greek professor of that seminary (Robert C Campbell). I was baptised by Dr Loren D Mcbain, the name sake of the seminary’s “Power of Preaching” award. Maybe you are familiar with those names. Obviously my church was very influenced by the seminary.
My faith has remained, but changed for the same reasons. I have been humbled by having to admit that I really cannot describe or even conceive what God is or isn’t, but recognize that there is definately a higher “Power” of some sort. That “Power” is the “seed” in which all the major religions of the world grew from. I have pretty much discarded “Christianity” as the being the “True” religion, but rather just one particular interpretation of God. I think Paul was closest in Rom 1&2
Thank you for sharing your comments. Our backgrounds are similar and I appreciate hearing about yours.
I note that you are a Presbyterian minister. Did you not have to subscribe to a stated set of beliefs or a creed when you were ordained? If that was the case have you subsequently found that you can no longer commit to some elements of what you affirmed on the day?
If, on the other hand, you did not have to do this were you able to draft your own set of vows speaking in terms of ‘living in the questions’ etc?
I am so sorry that you have not received a reply. I have had some technical glitches and I am not able to see your two comments. We are examined prior to ordination but it is not a “sign on the dotted line” kind of examination and there is room for individual interpretation.
Thank you for your essays. As an (old) philosopher, I have been rivetted for as long as memory serves with the question: why do humans come to have the beliefs they do? And, e.g., what is it for A to be (good, bad) evidence for B? And I share your addiction to questions. What you say raises, then, a couple of further questions. First, the term “higher power” is fraught. Higher in what sense; power in what sense? Would that sense entail a kind of mind or intellect? Why/why not? If not, are we still engaged in religious inquiry? Granting (what is undeniable) that, inter alia, the creators of the Biblical texts were engaged in something that could be understood as a search to understand/engage with such a power, is that, however understood, a fundamental/universal feature of religious traditions? Is that what being a person of faith consists in? And a final thought: perhaps religions have more tools than words – e.g., ritual and communion. Well, that’s more than a “couple” of questions. Have at any that beckon.
That is indeed more than a couple but they are interesting, so thank you. And please forgive my slow response; technical glitches occurred and I did not see this post until now. I think you are definitely on to something in your conjecture that a universal feature of religious traditions is the search for that which is beyond our human understanding. We could go on for some time with how that is manifested in various traditions, couldn’t we? And, yes, I agree that “higher power” is fraught but so are many of the words we choose for these concepts.
Judy Siker:
If, however, one comes to the Bible with the idea that it can only be considered sacred text if it is historically accurate, factual, without error or inconsistency, then by all means the scholarly approach is anathema.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy:
Praying to a god for births, marriages, and burials–seeking holiness… is more than hit, miss, more questions, and giggles intrigue. Fields of study advance. It is a theological crime not to.
Praying to god for giving thanks for the glory and power of the earth means the object of prayer may not be the only god that exists and may not be the best god to address one’s concerns?
Thank you God for the Grand Canyon or Niagara Falls. The Grand Canyon is not in Judea or Israel but I want to thank Yahweh for the Grand Canyon. Yahweh was not even the top of the Canaanite pantheon. El was the top of the Canaanite pantheon. It is not right to give food for children and toss it to the dogs (inference to Canaanites). Jesus cannot even respect the people of his god’s pantheon nor respect Yahweh himself: what kind of father gives snakes to his children?
Dr. Siker,
Thanks for these two posts! They resonate so much with my experience. I have a question for you. Do you think that faith and doubt are compatible? I once was a fundamentalist and believed that doubt was basically sin. Now I’m more of the opinion that doubt is an essential element of faith. Can you share your thoughts? Thanks!
Yes I do think faith and doubt are compatible. And I definitely believe that doubt is NOT a sin. Doubt, or questioning, is often the pathway to a richer faith. That will sound heretical to some, but I don’t think we are exploring or examining our faith if that is missing. Thanks for you comments.
Thank you for your reflections. I can understand your believing in a greater force, considering the Bible as humans wrestling with ideas of God, not necessarily signing up to all the ideas. I myself really struggle now to believe anything from the NT in its detail, or representing anything that might actually be happening in a supernatural realm. I don’t know where to go from here. It feels a struggle to attend my place of worship which is traditional. I feel I am torturing myself about ‘what is true’ or ‘can it be true’? I value the gist we have of what Jesus was saying. I have learned about influences from the zeitgeist of the time, humans making bits up or using common cultural tropes or metaphor, putting words on the lips of Jesus. Further humans editing. People having ideas they thought were from God. Why should we believe Paul? I suppose I am asking in what sense would many Christian scholars say they are a Christian? How do Christian scholars in general frame their faith. Would most believe in a ‘greater power’ but be unable to sign up to Christian doctrines, or any or all that Paul/the apostles believed?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, concerns, and struggles. While I can only really answer your question from my own perspective as a Christian scholar, I will say that for this one (me) my faith is framed by a belief in a greater power or force of good in the world that was captured in amazingly powerful ways in the life of a first century man from Nazareth. I am fascinated by the impact he made on his world and even more fascinated by the fact that the wrestlings of those humans in that small place at that particular time were considered significant enough to pass on. I understand your unease in your traditional place of worship, especially if you feel that there is a requirement to know what is true or if anything can be true. For me, a place of worship should be a “sanctuary” where one can come as one is, with all the questions (and yes, doubts) to explore together what it means to be a decent human in this world in the time and place in which we find ourselves. I hope this helps, at least a little, to explain my perspective.
Long ago, as I was struggling very hard to get faith, wanting to really belong to my friend’s and family’s community, I suppose, I asked my very respected and admired philosophy teacher, and a priest, how to get faith, in short. He said: Faith is an irrational step.
So I tried that too. But was never able to completely abandon rationality.
After 50 years of trying or looking into it, I just decided to quit. I have no faith. Not to say no spirituality. Just this faith thing…
read about this Mormon guy, senator or the like…when asked he said, “of course I know Joe Smith was full of it, but regardless it seems to work”…
came here for the history lesson for Ehrman and Dominic Crossan and others seem to have the inside track on that but still have not seen much or anything here about Sejanus and Pilate for it seems that maybe they did not like the entire Hebrew bunch…and doubtful if Pilate ever met Jesus and that most likely he had left standing orders for anybody raising hell during Passover was to be dispensed with…
say this for Ehrman’s book suggests it is a fact Jesus actually existed…and since, like others, he is the authority…who is to argue?
what does this have to do with belief? Beats me.
Dr. Syker,
Unfortunately, the dominant American Christian voices for the last century have taught that salvation is dependent upon faith – not in Christ – but in a novel and literalist/fundamentalist interpretation of scripture as “The Word of God.”
But this “faith in the Bible” rather than “faith in Christ” teaching defies both history and our own experience. The Bible claims to be written by fallible men. In history, we see the development of Christian doctrines through the writings of the Church fathers, who often disagreed with each other. In our own experience, we see that our ideas of God developed over our lifetime. So, also, it is easy to see in scripture the development of Israelite theology, from the Jebusite/Canaanite El Adonai (Most High) to the YWHW of Samuel and Elijah’s high places (Carmel, Shiloh, etc) to Josiah’s centralized worship, to 2nd temple formalization. Throughout this time, they were Israel – He who struggles with God – yet no matter what happened to them, like Jacob with the angel, THEY WOULD NOT LET GOD GO.
So, also, I often struggle with understanding God, but I, also, will not let him go.
Brilliant post, thank you. I rarely reply anymore, but could not resist this time. Perhaps intelligence is not a function of the answers we provide, rather, intelligence is a function of the questions that we ask. I have had a similar journey as you, with a couple of masters programs under my belt and now working on a third. However, I have been told a few times that you cannot be a Christian without believing that the Bible is inerrant (inspired, infallible, etc.). Even though I consider myself a Christian, there are people who think that I am not (because of my questions about scriptural inconsistencies and contradictions). How do you deal with people like that? There are many universities that will not even let you into their program unless you agree that the earth is 6K years old, and the Bible is inerrant. How do you suggest people work around those issues? Thanks again, I deeply admire your intellectual honesty and courage.
Thank you for your comments. I apologize for the delay in responding. I actually thought folks would have moved on but I am glad there is still interest. Combine this with some technical glitches and you have a delayed response. As for those who inform you that you cannot be a Christian without their list of criteria I think we must realize that the criteria they espouse is just that–theirs. If having questions negates your Christianity, there are many of us who call ourselves Christians who are in trouble. But I do not believe we are. Regarding universities with doctrinal requirements I really think that unless you can truthfully agree with their way of thinking, it is not the place for you. I am a strong proponent of asking questions, of living in the questions. I think it is an honest approach to the life of faith and I am always happy to meet fellow sojourners.
Dr. Siker,
I was hooked when the titles of your two blog posts were published. Needing to hear someone explain what appears to be a contradiction in my own life, prompted me to pay the blog membership to be able to read your thoughts. I expected something else. What I read was a relief. I am not a Christian scholar of any kind and have only recently started trying to understand this conundrum that has existed for most my adult life. I will continue to address the challenge you have brought into focus for me. The very issue I have avoided for so long…. Asking questions about my faith. I don’t have any intelligent questions to ask right now, except perhaps one: Why are there so few church leaders that encourage this type discussion or study? I am old – and you are only the second I have encountered (interestingly, both women. Hmmmm….). One more thought, I was ready to walk away from traditional Christian churches. I feel I now have a way to continue in my community of faith as I learn more. Thank you.
Apologies for the delay in response. Thank you so much for your comments. As you have correctly observed, I am a strong proponent for raising questions about our faith and I regret that there are so many who frown upon this. The idea that we could, if we work hard enough or simply just accept the “right” answers, have a full understanding of Christianity (or any religion) is simply untenable to me. Regarding your question about the small number of church leaders who encourage this discussion, I think they do that from fear or from desire for control, both of which are frankly unacceptable. I am happy you feel you have a way to continue your journey and I wish you many good conversation partners on the way.
Excellent ministry. I appreciate your willingness to present your Christian views to the Bartonians. I hope they haven’t been too hard on you, and so I will follow your lead with my spiritual take on faith.
I have found that all sacred scriptures contain measures of wisdom. I am a monotheist who views the Creator of All-That-Is to be an Unknowable Prime Mover, EXCEPT for the Extraordinary Beauty of what has been Created in the Universe, on Planet Earth, and by the gifted artistic humans. I cherish the historical Jesus as an authentic, 1st century Rabbi and Prophet, but I don’t view him as a deity. I find solace in my devotional time spent with the Beauty of Nature. I take comfort in the empathy, compassion, kindness, good deeds, music, art, and poetry created by virtuous humans.
I keep my sanity with “I shall fear no evil.”
Much obliged, and may blessings be upon thee.
Beautifully said! Thank you.
My hope is that you, Bart, and AJ Levine will consider doing a course study
on “The Problem of Evil” (a prime cause for non-belief) from a Biblical perspective.
Bart! – pretty please with sugar on top.
Amen! I totally agree with everything you wrote. Thanks so much for sharing your life experiences with us.
Thank you!
Peter Brown, the historian of late antiquity, wrote in his memoir
“Journeys of the Mind: A Life in History” that he returned to the Christian faith because “ I came to feel that there was nothing strange about the desire to worship God”
I think that historical study of the Bible complements that emotion.
“Eric, your god makes you think” is what a Jesuit said consolingly when I whined about feeling isolated from my fellow Catholics. They always seem so smug when they say “Just have faith” to me as I constantly and critically do my own (believing) brand of NT exegesis. Your post helped me understand that I’m not alone.
Eric Smith, Annapolis, MD
Thanks for sharing this and apologies for the slow response. I had a few technical glitches and this post just came to my attention. You are definitely not alone. Like you (and your Jesuit friend) I believe that thinking is good for the soul.
Amen!
Wow! Reading the article and the comments could almost give me a headache if I let them. I think most people or many, anyway, long for answers to their plethora of questions about life and how it came to be and all the infinite questions that could possibly flow from that one. Definitive answers are hard to come by in my experience. Who is right and who is wrong or who is close and who isn’t is anybody’s studied guess, it seems. I just hope that we can all find “happiness” in this life, acknowledging that our definitions of happiness vary widely. After 76 years of living, that’s about the best I can come up with. It’s a quest for answers that I think never or rarely goes away. We eventually settle on something acceptable to ourselves, I hope, though what we settle on often changes as we go through time. Thank you to the author and all the commenters for sharing your thoughts. I enjoyed reading them. Keep asking your questions. Wishing us all the best on this journey that is life!
Amen!
Dr. Siker: Thank you for your insightful posts.
You are still able to believe in a greater power or force of good that was captured by the life of Jesus. Does that belief extend to the Apostles Creed? Are you still able to believe in Christ’s resurrection?
I come from a similar upbringing and can be comfortable “living the questions”. Yet when it comes to core tenets, particularly the resurrection, if that’s not factual, then why bother.
Thank you for your comments. In terms of the resurrection, my answer would require at least another whole post but let me say simply that I believe in a God who brings life out of death. How I understand that in terms of the life and death of Jesus may not look exactly like others’ interpretations but it is my way of wrestling with this.
Thank you for your posts. In your view, what are the necessary qualities someone must posess to identify as a Christian?
I have recently (a week ago) made two comments on Judy Siker’s 2nd post but neither has so far been moderated. Is there any reason for this, please?
I think there wasa glich in her access. I’ve just now communicated with her about it.
Thank you Dr. Siker, for this pair of blog posts. They’re wonderful.
I was a pastor in a relatively large conservative denomination that broke away from what is now the PCUSA. I left that conservative break-away denomination, and later the broader Church about ten years ago.
What startles me is that, coming from that ultra-conservative church of which I was a part, is that they would define you and me as heretics and likely as atheists as well. They most definitely would declare our beliefs “anathema”, as you wrote.
Worse still, that lifelong experience makes me feel like only polar opposites are possible: stay in the unyielding fold, or become an unbelieving heretic. But there’s a more reasonable perspective. It’s the one you presented in your blog posts. To still believe, but with a realistic view of what the scriptures are.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It’s so refreshing and helpful.
Thank you so much for your comments. We humans with our limited capacity for understanding our mortal world, much less the divine, are surely quick to label one another and try to place everything in an Us vs Them category. I continue to hope that our visions will be broadened, our hearts softened, and our willingness to be kind to one another expanded.
As an Eastern Orthodox Christian who is very invested in critical scholarship (though also holds some conservative positions on dating!) I am pleased to see more Christians joining the forces of scholarship. God desires us to pursue truth, and we should follow it where it leads us. God bless you and your faith.
Judy, I noticed that your book (or is it a Bible study?) Who is Jesus? Is not available on Amazon. Will it be anytime soon or is it available somewhere else?
THank you for asking. It is still available in paperback from this site: https://www.pcusastore.com/Products/HZN16100/who-is-jesus-horizons-bible-study-20162017-english.aspx?bCategory=PWHO!BS
Thank you for your post and sharing your point of view.
I appreciate your emphasis on Faith over attempting to die on the sword of making the Bible a rigid set of facts….which defeats the purpose of faith. So many fail that simple aspect. My parents are rigid on Biblical Inerrancy, and it has made any meaningful relationship almost impossible.
I would love to hear clarification on your stance towards the “God” force & reference of the description of the OT traditions. Is the God Force the same across humanity? Example are eastern religions interacting with the same force? – Is there one god force or potentially many?
A short version of my own similarly dissimilar experience. I too was a southern bible belter – full fundamentalist evangelical; rural Northeast AR, saved at 5, Bible Drill Nationals for Free Will Baptists by 8, door knocking Romans Road to salvation by 12. My uncle was a missionary in Africa. Non-denominational Christian School until it got so cult like by 8th grade I got put into Public School with the heathen. Atheist by 18…the suffering aspect of theism gets me, unless we argue predestination, but I digress haha.
Wow. You have quite a story! Thanks for sharing. It is fascinating to me how many ways we humans express our understanding of the “god force.” I think it is the searching across humanity that is the same while the expressions of our understanding are quite varied.
Thank you for your posts Judy! About your greeting card analogy and its relation to ancient people over time figuring out how to relate to ‘a higher power’, I still can’t help seeing the critical academic range of approaches as necessarily leading to views about many of the authors of various parts of the bible that do not adopt this stance. They were advancing political or theological/tribal aims from a standpoint of misunderstanding extant scriptures and traditions and then synthesizing those with their aims and current cultural influences, often claiming their version to be the only right belief and then using belief as entry fee for tribal association even until today. So much of it is not about exploring what that higher power could be. I very much respect your approach of living in the questions and not using belief as tribal currency, but if you grant the above views of the tradition (and I’m not sure to what degree you do) then how would the scholarly approach not lead you to demote scripture’s relevance in that search for meaning and understanding/belief in any higher power?