Loading...Here I continue and conclude my discussion of short stories in the Hebrew Bible, with some of the favorite Sunday School stories of all time, found in the book of Daniel. Again, I draw here on my college textbook, The Bible: A Historical and Literary Introduction to the Early Christian Writings.
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The book of Daniel is counted among the Major Prophets of the English Bible, but in the Hebrew Bible it is not one of the prophets at all; it is included in the Writings. This is almost certainly because it was the last book of the Hebrew Bible to be written (as we will see later), and when it came to be placed in circulation and more widely known, the collection of Latter Prophets was already considered to be a closed canon, containing, like the Former Prophets, four scrolls: Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and The Twelve.
In some respects it makes sense that Daniel is included as a book among the prophets in English Bibles, both because the main character is portrayed making prophetic utterances and because he has visions of prophetic importance. But in another sense this book is very different from the other prophets of the Jewish Scriptures. Daniel is not a historical figure who makes real-time proclamations to the people of Israel in light of their dire situation and almost certain coming destruction. The first six chapters of the book are a collection of short stories about a wise young man Daniel, taken to Babylon after the destruction of Jerusalem. The final six chapters contain a number of apocalyptic visions that Daniel allegedly had. There are good reasons for thinking that these two portions of the book originated separately from one another as different traditions associated with this person Daniel, and that they were put together only after both had been in circulation for a time. One of the most obvious reasons for thinking so is that they are in fact of different genres of literature.
The stories of chapters 1-6 are obviously post-exilic, as they are all about life in exile. They are probably to be dated to the fourth or third century b.c.e. One of the peculiarities of the book is that
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Isn’t the Book of Daniel a forgery of prophecy? Who is responsible for the forgery?
Nearly all Biblical Scholars say the Book of Daniel was written in the 2nd Century BCE not the 6th Century BCE. They say it was written AFTER the events it “prophesied.” at around 164 BCE. Hence the forgery of prophecy.
This video link provides an account by Prof. Dale Martin and his dating including references to the Bible as Proof :
https://youtu.be/7QIBB7gXHKc
Yes, critical scholars have long known that the book is written by someone *claiming* to be Daniel who wasn’t, living 400 years after Daniel himself allegedly lived. We don’t have a name of a person who forged it. The only other actual forgery in the OT (i.e., a book that claims to be written by someone who did not in fact write it) (most books don’t make *any* claims for their authors) is Ecclesiastes, which claims to be written by Solomon (strongly but implicitly) but was not.
Daniel is not first person until chapter 8, then only awkwardly so. So perhaps this is an addition to the earlier tales by another author with a slightly different agenda?
Yes, it is usually thought that Daniel 7-12 come from a different author with a different perspective and different agenda. (I believe the first person is found alreayd in ch. 7, no?)
Would Genesis 1: 1-28 fall into the category of forgery? It is written from the stance of a third-person observer but the only possible source who would have known what was said and done was God Himself.
Names ending in -iel, -uel and -el suggest a very ancient character from a time of the worship of El, father of the subsequent Israelite storm god, YHWH. Daniel is mentioned as an archetypal wise man in Ezekiel 28 which mentions cherubs thus putting it post-Babylonian exile. The cherubs and gems specified in Ezekiel 28 make it look like a precursor to Genesis 2. Genesis must have been finalized quite late for an origins account.
No, not really. Forgery, as I use it, refers to an author making a false claim about his/her identity. Reporting a third-person narrative about something that didn’t happen doesn’t qualify; for that I use the term “fabrication.” But in this case I think it’s probalby better just to call it a “myth,” meaning something like “a story involving the work of a divine being that is meant to communicate deep and fundamental truths”
Haha – now I am listening to the whole Dale Martin course 🙂
I have never considered Daniel’s book to be historical, beyond that it can draw from historical events to express a deeper, allegorical meaning.
In my mind, this is one of the basic themes that I am able to understand from the Bible, here OT, the human soul as a royal image of God as mentioned in Genesis and the Psalms ,,, taken to a foreign kingdom alienated from true God, changed name with references to Babylonian deities. And then it expresses through various dreams about the curse of the other kingdoms (perhaps an allegory of earthly material kingdoms) to the return to “the new Jerusalem” perhaps as an evolved condition (not so different from what I understand “The Hymn of the Pearl” to be)).
To me, the book of Daniel is NOT meant to be a historical book with a historical message. To me it is an allegory about the fall of the human soul, (that they were led to a foreign kingdom, through several of the dreams and depictions of “beasts” in chapter 7, and the hope of its return with the restoration and liberation of the Son of Man from the animals to sit on the throne next to “The Ancient of Days” ((AND since I consider “The Revelation” to be an inner spiritual / spiritual evolution back to its origin, or New Jerusalem, the animals in Daniel fit well with the beast that governs us in or current existence)))) .
In a way, I think I have started to like the book.
One of the best things I have learned from your books is to read the book for itself in its appropriate cultural context. Anti-apologetics does not do this at all.
The first half is far more comparable to cosmopolitan Aramaic literature like Esther and Ahiqar, which btw is the earliest evidence of reading material of Judeans and found in Elephantine Papyri. Daniel was the second most common piece of literature in the DSS, and I think its for an entirely overlooked reason: its the story version of how to worship the most high God (Dt being the most common in the DSS and the “rules” version of how to worship God). Today people focus on those saved by YHWH but ignore the punishments meted out by the incorrect worship of gods.
The second half, states over and over again that it is taking place in Susa, Elam. David is there in Chapter 8. Chapter 10 he is on the Tigris and seems to move to Elam. In Chapter ten we have Darius the Mede. Daniel uses fake names. IDKwhy. But it seems to be Dariusthe Great. He moved his capital to Susa, Elam. The temple invaded is in Susa!
I don’t understand how fundamentalists manage to ignore historical errors, unless they have some kind of alternate history, and believing in an alternate history seems to verge perilously close to living in an alternate universe.
Why the switch to Aramaic from Hebrew?
It’s not completely obvious, and there are several theories about it among experts. The one that I find most convincing is that the opening chapters 1-6 were originally composed in Aramaic. But in the period in which it was being published (2nd c. BCE), when ARamaic was the normal language, there was a strong push to return to the ancestral traditions and so Hebrew became more popular in some circles. The person editing the account therefore translated ch. 1 into Hebrew to set the stage, left the other chapters since everyone could read them, introduced the second part of the book with an Aramaic chapter to provide the transition to show the connectoin of 1-6 and 7-12, and then incoroporated a different Hebrew source for the visoins of chs 8-12. Some theories are more complicated!
The stories of Dan. 1-6 were also supposed to convince the reader that Daniel really lived in the time of the Babylonian exile, and would thus believe that the “predictions” in chapters 7-12 were true prophecies.
As with the other Old Testament stories that are not historical, the Jewish people including Jesus in the 1st century thought that Daniel was a historical person, right?
Absolutely.
Do we have any reliable sources that describe what actually happened during the years of exile? Or do we mostly have to use the books of the Bible? Since Josephus incorporates these stories like Daniel, is he considered a reliable source?
All we have are the biblical sources, and those who relied on them (including Josephus).
Speaking of Koheleth, has anyone read the Gordis 1987 book? If so, what did you think?
https://www.amazon.com/Koheleth-Man-World-Study-Ecclesiastes/dp/0805201661
I’m afraid I for one haven’t.
Iron Maiden’s new album contains a song called “Writing on the Wall.” While it doesn’t hit one over the head with references to Daniel, it seems to invite the reader to draw comparisons to our own time with the theme of the fall of empires. Rather than simply announcing that they had a new album coming, they initially got fans wondering by having vocalist Bruce Dickinson show up to interviews wearing a shirt featuring the words “Belshazzar’s Feast.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhBnW7bZHEE
Many thanks for the link. I was not aware of this new album by the masters of the metal universe.
Incidentally, the Babylonian king at the time of the Persian conquest was Nebuchadnezzar’s son, Nabonidus, who had been neglecting his royal duties because he had an obsession with archaeology. In fact, he may have been the world’s first archaeologist, as far as we know. His son, Belshazzar, (Nebuchadnezzar’s grandson) was acting as regent in his stead. We do not know what happened to either Belshazzar or his father when Babylon fell but it is likely that they were killed by the Persians.
Bart, how do stay on top of necessary information and make the time to update the textbooks you’ve written? Is it a huge undertaking?
Enough to make you weep. Well, OK, maybe not. But enough to make *me* weep!
Perhaps it should be viewed as a veiled anti Greek work? Seems the Essenes liked it?
I can only see part of this blog post. Yes, I’m logged in. It seems to stop at the point you stop at for people who aren’t members of the blog. Yet I’ve logged in and I can’t see anything beyond that point.
That usually indicates that your membership needs to be renewed. If you’re having a problem with it, click Help and ask Support, and they’ll help you out.
Dear Bart, this is rather unrelated to the post but usually in your videos you refer to scholarly studies about how oral traditions are transferred in oral cultures. Could you please recommend a book (or a scholarly monograph) about this subject (for a non-expert)? thank you
I discuss them, with footnotes, in my book Jesus Before the Gospels. Some of the classics are written by Albert Lord, Jack Goody, and Jan Vansina.
I’m fascinated by the phenomenon of dreams and dream interpretation in ancient history. I have Patricia Cox Miller’s study of Late Antiquity which focuses of course on the second to the fifth centuries. I have Leo Oppenheim’s old classic study of the Ancient Near East. I guess what I’m looking for is something to fill in the gap, something focusing on Second Temple Judaism. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Really depends what aspect of things you’re looking for. If you want something on dream interpretatoin in antiquity per se, the major starting point is Artemidorus, the Interpretation of Dreams. I had a librarian at UNC once tell me it was THE most frequently pilfered book from university libraries. Go figure. (Artemidorus is an ancient Greek Freud)
Yes thanks, I’m familiar with the Oneirocritica. I suppose what I’m looking for is something that would deal in general with views in Second Temple Judaism and in particular something that would provide background to the views that might have been held by Jewish apocalypticists like Jesus and Paul, and also the gospel writers. I suspect there’s not one book like this but dozens. I’m just looking for a way in. One book with a good bibliography and I can take it from there.
Off hand I don’t know. My student Jason Combs wrote a PhD dissertation on aspects of dreams in the anciennt world; he wold probably know if you wanted to contact him. He teaches at BYU.
Dr. Ehrman,
What do you think motivated the writers of Daniel and Isaiah to use vaticinium ex eventu? I’m thinking particularly of Isaiah 45 (Cyrus the Great) and Daniel 11 specifically. Do you think they were just charlatans? Or, perhaps, pragmatic, religious zealots? If it was the latter, what were they trying to accomplish using vaticinium ex eventu?
I don’t think Isaiah 45 is ex eventu necessarily… Daniel 11 on the other hand (like Daniel 7, and 8, etc.) is following a clear technique: having an allegedly ancient figure predict the “future” which is really past (so that the prediction “comes true”) and hten predicting what is still YET to happen, which the reader takes to be equally probably to that which has “already been fulfilled.”
Isaiah was around 8th century BCE, no? Isaiah predicting Cyrus “setting the exiles free” in Isaiah 45 wasn’t ex eventu? Am I misusing the term?
Ah, Isaiah 45 is from SECOND Isaiah; Isaiah of Jerusalem produced what are not chapters 1-39; the next section, chs. 40-55, were produced by a different author living during the exile, around 550. I’ll be posting on the three sectoins of Isaiah in a week or two, to explain all that.
Dear Bart,
In almost 30 years of being a fairly irreverent Christian, I’m shocked that I’ve only just discovered an alternative reading of 1Kings18:27 – and it’s hilarious. Would you be willing to give us your views on this verse, with an eye on why translators seem to have shied away from a certain vernacular reading of Elijah’s words?
You’ll need to quote it so other blog members know what you’re referring to, and ask your question again then as well.
Apologies – I was lazily relying on the blog’s autogenerate function where you can hover your mouse over the verse reference and it pops up the verse in question. Here it is:
“At noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud! Surely he is a god; either he is meditating, or he has wandered away, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.”” (NRSV)
The NRSV has “wandered away” although NASB uses the more American “attending to business”. The ESV uses “relieving himself”, but a more Anglo-Saxon version would be “taking a shit”.
It seems that most translators, such as the NRSV, have opted for something less scatological than the ESV or NASB, presumably due to an aversion for irreverent language being heard in church. However, I would argue that significantly blunts the impact of Elijah words to the Baal worshippers and removes some of the force of his mocking.
All sorts of horrendous stories of cruelty and violent butchery is found in the bible, which seems to survive the translators, but when it comes to “taking care of business”, many shy away from it. I wonder if you could give us your view?
Ah, sorry! When I receive the posts I don’t have that function. Strange that the administrator should be handicapped. I’ll look into it.
Yup, they are definitely trying to soften the blow. IN some passages it’s not possible (you can’t tell the story of the battle of Jericho without everyone being killed!). “Meditating,” as you may know, used to be a euphemism for sitting on the toilet.
I’ve always wondered where Daniel was when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were thrown into the Fiery Furnace. Was he exempt from the law to bow down to the statue?
For that matter, where were they when Daniel was thrown into the lions’ den?
There was a very popular Southern Gospel song about the 3 youths in the Fiery Furnace. See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHux1_4L2-I
Right — stories often have logical problems that most people never notice.
Please, for those of you unaware of and interested in terrific swingin’ and not quite ancient commentaries on Daniel and his buddies (authored by Robert MacGimsey), I encourage your viewing the brief https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa4QSweFQYE (my fav) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r1baNdgImo Covered by many jazz, big band and gospel groups. Enjoy
Thanks for the links. Fantastic stuff. Both deliveries are great.
Reading this, I now understand why the “rapture” hasn’t happened: The ones who made the predictions thought they were reading a “real prophet’s” predictions, not just another “inspirational storybook”. Thank you for the eye opener, Prof!
Great post and great dialogue!!! Now, why do fundamentalists ignore the historical errors and all the discrepancies found in the Bible and revealed in this blog? I think that most are not aware of the errors and discrepancies. And the ones who do probably wish to keep silent in case there is more of a falling away of the already declining Western church populations Some say that it was prophesied that there would be a great falling away in the last days. A few, who I have discussed it with, state that the message remains the same- God sent his only Son to die for our sins and that He will return again.
When I was a fundamentalist we had creative ways of resolving *all* the “apparent” contradictions.
Yes, perhaps explained by it being a natural human reaction to rationalize any cognitive dissonance. Thank you for your response and blog. Very thought provoking.