(22 votes, average: 4.91 out of 5)
Loading...In response to my recent posts about the historical accuracy of the Hebrew Bible, especially in the opening five books, the “Pentateuch” (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) I have had several members of the blog ask about the “Documentary Hypothesis” which postulates that one reason for the discrepancies is that whoever published these five books was not a single author (Moses or anyone else) but an editor who combined earlier sources of information together, without smoothing out their differences.
Like just about all scholars of the Bible, I agree with the basic premise of the documentary hypothesis, though these days most real experts think it is much more complicated than what we present to our first-year students. If you’re interested in a bird’s eye view of it, I have a discussion in my book The Bible: A Historical and Literary Introduction. If you want an intriguing full presentation written for lay folk, in a convincing fashion, see Richard Friedman, Who Wrote the Bible.
The traditional form of the documentary hypothesis was most famously promoted by the nineteenth-century German scholar, Julius Wellhausen, who, along with some of his predecessors, called the sources J E D and P. Here is how the hypothesis worked, in nuce. (This is the summary taken from my book, given after I highlight the evidence for it.)
*************************************************************
THE REST OF THIS POST IS FOR MEMBERS ONLY. If you don’t belong yet, JOIN UP!! You’ll never regret it: there is a ton of information heading your way, at very little cost; and all proceeds go to charity!!
JuAfter reading Friedman’s book I went through Genesis, and my NASB bible translates Yahweh and Elohim differently, so I could see the different story lines that had been woven together. Noah’s story was particularly interesting, as I could now appreciate the differences, like pairs of animals vs. 7 pairs of clean animals, and the rainbow as God’s sign vs. the change of seasons. Also explained some of the repetitive events in the Abraham story. A great example of how serious Bible study is more enlightening than the traditional Sunday School stories and sermons we grow up with.
I downloaded on my IPAD Richard Friedman’’s “The Bible with Sources Reveled. It’s basically the printed Pentateuch but the JEDP material is separated by fonts, bolding, and italics. It’s very creative. For one thing, you get to see the JEDP breakout as you read the Old Testament and for me it was simply fun to read the Old Testament (again). I recommend it…!
I’m finishing up his Who Write the Bible? now. Are you familiar with any books that go into detail on the formation of the Supplementary Hypothesis? I just learned about this competing paradigm after reading Thomas Romer’s “The Invention of God.”
I’m afraid I don’t.
Is the Decalogue original to the Pentateuch or borrowed from another culture in the region?
Turns out there are three decalogues in the Pentateuch (one completely not like the others; see Exodus 34:17-28!), and the most familiar one, from Exodus 20, can be numbered so as to make “ten” of the commandments/words in different ways! But the normal assumption, I think, is that each of them has come to the author’s through their communities, not that the author made them up. Maybe I’ll say a bit more about this on the blog.
Please do! I’d love to read it! It’s your insight and explanations that keep me renewing my membership!
follow up question on this, just because I’m reading more on the subject now and I’m referencing your blog- you mention three Decalogues but you only cite two here. Can you tell me which chapter and verse contains the third? Thanks! (Can’t wait for you to blog more on this!)
Deuteronomy 5:6-21
After learning more about this subject from you I just read “Etched in Stone” by David Aaron- are you familiar with it? If not I highly recommend it!
Nope — don’t know it!
A subject that’s more complicated than the picture presented to freshmen…weird, it’s almost like an entry level class isn’t sufficient to give someone the full depth of understanding that a PhD would have. There’s a lot of people on the internet that are going to be very disappointed to hear this, lol.
I know! You mean you can’t learn everything about the Bible by reading an article in Time?
When did the Pentateuch (Torah) become what we have today? Is this the form the scripture had during the lifetime of Jesus of Nazareth?
It had it’s current form already by the time of Jesus — probably at least a century or so before that.
You mean Jesus and his disciples were not waging a war to make the septuagint codex the world standard? Oh, that’s right. Jesus and his disciples didn’t speak Greek. When he said he brought a new law, he didn’t mean a new translation in the new medium of the bound manuscript. He meant some new rules that exceeded the current rules that no one could live up to even then.
This so fascinating
Is there any common name for the general idea that the Pentateuch is the product of multiple authors rather than one (Moses)? Perhaps Composite Hypothesis vs Unitary Hypothesis? Then JEDP would be one of several subhypotheses proposing a background to the Composite Hypothesis.
Documentary Hypothesis.
All these works would have had human authors, but quite probably their names had been forgotten–did this make it easier to think of them as divinely inspired?
If you know somebody who has been working on a book, and is talking to you about how he or she is struggling with it, thinking about different ways to structure and present the story, undecided how to begin or end it–you can’t think of that as divinely inspired, even if authors with no religion may speak at times of ‘The Muse’ which is in fact a sort of deity, or was.
But if you were to just find a forgotten book cached somewhere, even if you know a fellow human must have written it down, you can begin to imagine it as something that was meant to be; it takes on a divine aura. A found object waiting for you to find it, and bring it to a larger audience. And that does (I know from experience, though not with ancient manuscripts) lead to feelings of destiny, fate–divine intervention.
And after all, you do need to say that some texts have more authority than others for them to be used as guidelines for the faithful, and where does religious authority always ultimately come from?
So to restate my question, where is the earliest source we have where the concept of divinely inspired writing can be found?
The idea of inspired writings probably arose as a consequence of ancient “oracles,” prophets/prophetesses who were inspired to speak by God, e.g., through ecstatic experiences. These go back as far as we have records in the West.
Bart: “Finally, the P source is so named because it is chiefly concerned with matters of interest to priests – for example, laws given by Moses about sacrifices, rituals, the observance of festivals, kosher foods, circumcision, genealogies (such as in Genesis 5 and 10) and so on.”
I’m curious why kosher foods and circumcision would be considered specifically priestly concerns.
Upon reflection, I do see that proper sacrificial practice is indeed an important part of obtaining kosher meat.
I’m still puzzled by why priestly authors would be especially concerned with circumcision. Perhaps this too was entrusted to priests, who would have sharp knives used in the slaughter of animals?
Yes, we do hope the knives were sharp!!
Because they are about “purity” broadly defined, as setting the “holy” people apart from everyone else.
or economics? power?
It seems that many of the earliest critical scholars were German, rather than, say, from England or France.
Is that simply because Germany was the center of the Protestant Reformation and there was more freedom to think outside of traditional orthodoxy, or was there more to it than that?
That’s the main reason, but I don’t think I would call it simple. It’s a complex set of historical, cultural, and religious phenomena. But, yes, short story: if your view is Sola Scriptura, then a focus on the interpretation of the text of Scripture now become a (historical, cultural, and religious) priority. France remained Catholic for the most part, and England went back and forth. Germany had not just the theological but also the cultural commitment to scholarship that made it the ideal place.
Did the documentary hypothesis begin with German scholar Julian Wellhausen?
He’s the one who put it into the now-familiar form of JEDP and widely popularized it, but he didn’t come up with the idea.
OK, so came up with the idea or did it just develop over time?
I”m can’t remember who first articulated the idea (publicly). I used to know!
Its a great starting point. It attempts to explain the odd way in which, for example, Noah has two sets of instructions for loading the ark with animals and two different lengths of the rainfall.
The underlying idea is that both (or all) sets of instructions are important and cannot be left out or changed for the presumed lower purpose of a readable story. (Apologies to the final redactor. The rain cannot fall 40 days AND 150 days. Yet it was readable enough that I did not catch this contradiction myself. It was pointed out to me.)
This brings two situational objections, before I even attempt to read the now myriad interpretations as to which verses belong to J, or E or D, or P.
First, it seems the very first postulate seems self contradictory. Scripture too sacred to change, and thus forcibly fit together and inevitably changed. Those who endeavor to write the J story or the E story are writing stories that are different than the what the Pentateuch presents as a whole.
Second, it presupposes a spirit of cooperation among the literate in power that is undermined by every Bible story about those in power (in Palestine or anywhere in the world, to be fair.) From Elijah to Mattathias, differing ways of worship are destroyed by the sword. The Qumran sect chose to cut themselves off completely to preserve their way of worship and not offend those in power.
The Persian Imperial Authorization theory attempts to set up a circumstance where various factions were forced to come up with a plan to live together in peace in the Persian Yehud. The J, E and D factions were put together, and the result was tinkered with for centuries by the literate Priestly class. This theory has fallen into disfavor in part because the centralization of worship in Jerusalem that a D or P writer seems to favor is not found in archeological finds. Especially the lack of embarrassment in the letters found in Elaphantine concerning the multiple (more than one!) temples and how they are to be built.
My question (finally!!) is this: Have you heard any proposals being brought forward to replace the Persian Imperial Authorization theory over the last two decades? Any hypothetical contexts providing a kiln for the Pentateuch to be baked in?
My sense is that most scholars think it is too neat by half, but I haven’t really delved into it.
Hello Dr Bart
I just want you to tell me your opinion about this narration from Muslim sources and if you have anything like it in writing of the new testament. what I mean by that was there any author of any book in the bible is asking his secretary to read what he just dictated to him in order to see if there is any error ? . Here is the narration
Zaid bin Thabit, one of the chief scribes of prophet Muhamed , relates: “I used to write down the revelation (koran ) for the blessed Prophet – may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. When the revelation came to him he felt intense heat and drops of perspiration used to roll down his body like pearls. When this state was over I used to fetch a shoulder bone or a piece of something else. He used to go on dictating and I used to write it down. When I finished writing the sheer weight of transcription gave me the feeling that my leg would break and I would not be able to walk anymore. Anyhow when I finished writing, he would say, ‘Read!’ and I would read it back to him. If there was an omission or error he used to correct it and then let it be brought before the people.”
Many thanks
No, there is nothing like this in the NT.
I’m sure this was often the case in the Bible because it did happen and has continued to happen to this day. For example Edgar Casey and Helen Shuckman. The end result is always the same. Also, take into consideration the enlightenment of medicinal plants used in those days such as Ayahuasca. You will find when you research that those experiences were at that time and still are significant in understanding ancient writings.
“Many scholars have thought that the J source was written during the United Monarch, possibly in the 10th century BCE during the reign of Solomon.”
Do you think there really was a United Monarch?
Sure, I think there was a kingdom in that land area at some time, and I think there was a David. But I think all the actual stories we have are legnedary.
So your thought is that there was a spilt of the united kingdom into a northern and southern kingdom?
I have read that some do not think the two kingdoms were ever together as one.
Well there definitely were two different kingdoms at some point. And my *sense* is that at one point the whole area was under a single king — but I’m not dogmatic about it. The stories of David, e.g., *could* have been only about a king in the south. And I think “king” maybe has the wrong connotations for us today, since we think of massive empires and castles and bureaucracies and the like, and it probably wasn’t so much like that at all.
So maybe “David” was more of a tribal chief than a king?
Well, it completely depends on how we define both terms; they’re just words, so what matters is how we conceptualize what he was doing and with what authority
Since Deuteronomy was the “last one in,” was it the most observed book for most Jews in the first century CE?
No, I don’t think so. They saw the whole collectoin as a unity.
There appears to be a split between the common people who were reading the texts or having them read to them, and those who were actually involved in writing the texts and editing them. Surely the P source knew what he or she was up to. Surely the other sources knew what they were doing– slanting the text, making it conform to their presuppositions, attempting to change meanings to elevate the status of their particular group. It is hard to believe that those people would have believed that the texts they worked with were divinely inspired. On the other hand, the common people, knowing nothing of these machinations, might have supposed that the texts were divinely inspired and free from error.
Like Joseph Smith jr writing in New York? I’m sure you’re right. Writing gave them power over those just reading. ‘Producers’ had the power over ‘consumers.’ We had a fascinating equivalent in South Africa in the early 1900’s. Isaiah Shembe starting writing a whole new book like Joe Smith did – starring him, funnily enough – and started a movement which grew HUGE among the Zulus.
Interesting but always the same story. J being Judah, Judus, (physical). E being Elohim (spiritual) P and D being the (the law) and JEPD in the end, they are all one. Over and over you will find the simple Truth once you begin to see it.
‘The Eternal and Immutable TRUTH’ – as amended time and time again over the years . . .
By . . . . humans. Fallible, ordinary humans.
No?
How do experts think the real story is more complicated? Are there more sources involved, or more editing steps or what are we talking about?
More sources, more steps, more interweavings — massive complications, other than four sources stitched together.
I have just started reading A History of the Bible by John Barton (on your recommendation) and he describes the JEDP hypothesis but then says that modern scholars distinguish merely between P and non-P. His categorisation is interesting in that he identifies three styles: Saga; Deuteronomistic; and Priestly. He also thinks that Saga predated Priestly and that (as per Friedman) Deuteronomistic was a product of Josiah’s reign. He soesn’t seem to have strong views about dates – I think he goes for earlier rather than post-exilic but not dogmatically so. Which way do you lean in describing the styles and the dates for composition? Thanks.
He’s a serious Hebrew Bible scholar, so I certainly won’t go toe-to-toe with him. My own view is that the JE source(s) were pre-exilic, but I don’t have massively strong opinions about it.
Really enjoying this topic, and the discussion. It’s something I’ve never thought about, but it is funny to think in Genesis, it took God six whole days to create the world — and then he needed to rest! You don’t normally think of an all-powerful being needing a nap. Which makes me wonder, is there a consensus theory on the origins of Yaweh? Do we know much about where he originated? And maybe you have posted on this and I haven’t found it, but did the food, intermarriage other purity laws develop largely as a result of Jewish leaders trying to prevent assimilation during the exile in Babylon, and then brought to Jerusalem when the second temple period began? Is that largely when the obsession with purity began?
I don’t know if there’s a consensus view, but my sense is that it is usually thought that Yahweh was a tribal deity among a group that acknowledged other gods as well, but chose to worship only him, and that over time, their views took over, and changed, until he came to be the ONLY God. And yes, many of the purity laws are apparently deisgned to establish the distinctiveness of this people over against everyone else.
Bart, you say: “It is often thought that the D traditions, like E, originated in the northern part of Israel.”
Why? Especially given the idea that the core of D originated with priests in Jerusalem during the reign of Josiah?
Ah, I feel like I’m at my PhD oral exam again, and have to come up with a vague recollection of something I should know about (I’m out of town and not near any of my books!). If I remember correctly, it’s because the place names (cities) focus on northern locations. But as I say, the account was clearly edited with a Jerusalem focus.
Dr Bart .. What about the Samaritan Pentateuch ? Do you think it’s OLDER than the JEWISH ONE ? and What evidence you are relying on in order to detect which one is OLDER than the OTHER ?
I don’t know a ton about it, but I don’t know of any experts who think that it is older than the Hebrew Bible version.
Ok Thanks Dr Bart ..
Regardless..
Can we conclude LOGICALLY and LINGUISTICALLY from the Samaritan Pentateuch in Deuteronomy 18/18 and Deuteronomy 34/ 10 that the Prophet LIKE MOSES 》》 WILL NOT COME FROM ISRAEL AND THEREFORE HE CAN’T BE JESUS ?
Don’t think so.
You can do this forever but you’ll never find answers. You can only find reasons. I have never even heard the Naghamadi mentioned. Always amazes me when these books are ignored because they were hidden and preserved for us to know the truth of what happened.
Please get back to us with more. I hadn’t heard that before.
I commend to your readers “The Composition of the Pentateuch” by Joel Baden (Yale UP, 2012). He shows how to separate the 4 sources, and he does it without any speculation as to when or where each originated. He shows each tells a complete story, i.e., none of them was composed to be a supplement to another.
wow, very interesting.
I have two questions
-What is the position of main christian churches about de JEDP hypothesis? do they accept it?
– Is there any external evidence of this hypothesis?
1. Non-conservative educated church leaders of major denominations accept it; 2. I don’t know what you mean by external evidence. But if you mean what I suspect you mean (e.g., ancient copies of just one or more of the sources??) then no, there’s not. The assessment of internal literary tensions — whether of the Pentateuch or Homer’s Iliad or the Gilgamesh epic any other ancient piece of literature is necessarily done on internal literary grounds.
yes I meant that. thank you Dr Ehrman
Enjoyable discussion. Thank you!
Those not favorable to the JEPD Hypothesis and who favor an earlier writing of the Pentateuch typically point to the following arguments to support their view:
1. Whenever animals, plants or flora are mentioned in the Torah they are indigenous to a Sinaitic locale (so written during the earlier sojourn years) and during a time period after settling in Israel/Palestine. And Moses, the primary author in this view of course, never entered Israel.
2. The author reveals an Egyptian frame of reference at times (so suggestive of earlier Hebrew history again–e.g.: Gen. 13:10 – “…like the land of Egypt as you go toward Zoar”); hence the author assumes his readers are familiar with Egypt & not Israel necessarily. Also: Num. 13:22c – “Now Hebron was built seven years before Zoan in Egypt.”
3. Focus on Tabernacle (why care about endless details of the Tabernacle if they are living hundreds of years beyond the time of the wilderness sojourn (Tabernacle era) and have a Temple in Jerusalem?)
4. No mention of Jerusalem in the Pentateuch (other than YHWH, one would think that the holy city would be a primary focus).
Thoughts?
Yeah, I don’t find any of these persuasive. I can’t go into all the details, but there are animals, etc. that in fact DON’T fit into the alleged historical framework (most famously “camels” in the time of Abraham); as to the Tabernacle and Jerusalem: these are meant to be describing times in the past. If I’m writing a book about the 16th century colonies in America I don’t speak about “the United States” or “Durham NC.” These didn’t exist yet. So I don’t talk about them. Ancient writers did the same thing. It doesn’t mean that someone writing about earlier time was *living* in those times!
Thanks for the fine response. Is there a book that you would recommend that, in your opinion, lays out the best-supported evidences for the history of the Pentateuch / what we’re discussing here? Thanks again.
I’d start with the books of William Dever on the history of Israel, and Silverman and Finkelstein’s Unearthing the Bible.
Fascinating. Like the camels, are there any other anachronisms that show these texts were written at a later date than the stories they are writing about? I think I heard Joel Baden discuss a verse (memory is failing me on the specifics) that discusses the Philistines when the Philistines wouldn’t have even been around yet?
Yes, that’s another one. You seem really interested in this kind of thing. Why not read up on it? For VERY basic starters, my Introduction to the Bible covers some anachronisms in the Pentateuch; but more serious (but still easy) reading would be the writings, say, of William Dever.
Fantastic. Thank you!
Do you have any specific recommendations on Dever’s work? After I read about Heaven and Hell of course!
Maybe start with: What Did the Biblical Writers Know and When Did They Know It?: What Archeology Can Tell Us About the Reality of Ancient Israel
What I find fascinating is that there was such varied view of the deity for such a small population of people who supposedly shared the same culture and religion. From what I understand, the population of Jerusalem in ancient times was just several thousand. The priests who were writing books and documents would have numbered in the tens or perhaps in the low hundreds at any given time. Yet they disagreed on pretty fundamental ideas on the nature of God, what God demanded, who it was demanded of. By the time D was written, J and E would have already been well known, at least within the people who were composing documents. Yet still he/they decided to write D which had a very different take on many matters. I do wonder how they were able to do this without earning the ire of other fellow scribes.
How important of a role did Cyrus the great play in post exilic Jewish history and old testament history, since it’s seems that all or parts of the OT came down to their current before and after the exile when he allowed Jews to return to their homeland?
He certainly was a figure to be contended with, and is talked about — Isaiah calls him the messiah! But I don’t know that he affected the sources of hte Pentateuch.
Do you know specifically what verse Cyrus is referred to as the messiah in Isaiah? Thanks!
This is the kind of thing you can find easily online: Just search for Cyrus in the book of Isaiah and BINGO, you’ll have it.
“Tradition credits Moses as the author of Genesis, as well as the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and most of Deuteronomy, but modern scholars increasingly see them as a product of the 6th and 5th centuries BC.[7][8]”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis
This puts them as possibly within the realm of Cyrus the Great. Interesting given that the Book of Isaiah specifically mentions Cyrus in sections scholars date post 538 BCE and not authored by Isaiah.
Apologies, I didn’t see the proceeding comments.
I think I read somewhere the Samaritans saying that their religion was changed by those returning from the Babylonian Captivity
Hello. I am the author of “The H-Source of the Bible”. The early parts of the bible prior to its Monotheistic transformation were all derived from Hurrian sources and influence and Ras Shamra.
EL and Baal are well known precursors who have their basis in Hindu Scriptures. The same is true about Yahweh
as well. The name “Baal” is likely from “Kumarbi”.
The later superposition of “Son” as opposed to the Sky Father or Dyaus Pita was also Eastern.
The Patriarchal Narratives are all FULLY Eastern.
The story of David is also very Eastern in origin. Not near Eastern or Middle Eastern but genuinely Eastern!!
J and P has tremendous synergy and drew more from the Indic East while E drew more from the Middle East.
Deuteronomy is actually Devarim and imposes the idea of Deva on the Pentateuch.
The Torah should be considered as having an “H-source” as well for this reason. Before J there was H. But H
is discernible from a Comparative Analysis of Puranas which have also been through redaction but because there are 18 Mahapuranas of varying versions, they are well understood and known.
What is important is the influence of the Hurro-Mitanni on the OT. The OT scholars of the US all mention Merneptah
But they never mention why Hurro is mentioned in close relationship to Israel. Hurro is a Widow as the Hurrians
relationship to Egypt died with the end of Akhenaten’s quazi Indo-Aryan religion.
What parts of J grew out of this we need to fully discern. We can guess but not without understanding Purana. But then there it is.This work needs a new School, the Puranic School.
June of last it was reported the tin ingots from Cornish tin mines dating to the 13th – 12th centuries were found in ancient israel, does this suggest at least that maybe ancient Israel was more that just a backwater fiefdom?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/groundbreaking-study-ancient-tin-ingots-found-in-israel-were-mined-in-england/
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0218326
I don’t know! Interesting. Of course there was some travel, even back then. But that is a long time ago, and it is quite a distance.
Everyone knows about the “Midianite connection” and how the “Shasu” worshipped “Yah” according to ancient Egyptian records?
Maybe everyone but me?
Dr Bart..
I will quote two premises from the Samaritan Pentateuch
Premis one from DT 18/18 :
I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him.
Premis two from DT 34/10 :
“there WILL NOT ARISE AGAIN A PROPHET LIKE MOSES IN ISRAEL …” (Samaritan Pentateuch)
So how come we can conclude from the previous premises that the Prophet like Moses will come from Israel according to the Samaritan Pentateuch ?!
Oh, I see. (Why aer you relying on the Samaritan Pentateuch, and what actually are you quoting?). I often say to my wife, “there is no one like you.” And other times I’ll say “So and so is just like you.” I always mean the statement in different ways: no one is like her with respect to X but this person is like her in respect to Y.
Hmmmm Dr Bart ….
So according to you :
Dt 34:10 “there arose not again a prophet like Moses in Israel ( Jewish Pentateuch ) vs. “there will not arise again a prophet like Moses in Israel ” (Samaritan Pentateuch)
Serve the Same Meaning and they are SYNONYMOUS ?!
No, not synonymous, I abstolutely did not say that. Compatible. I’m compatible with my wife (we can live together harmoniously) but I am not synonymous with her.
Yea Dr Bart I get that .. though .. I dont think that the analogy about the Wife is compatible with what we are discussing.. simply because you can live Harmoniously with the Wife under the condition of ignoring the CONTRADICTIONS of both of you .. or trying to interpret those CONTRADICTIONS so you can live Harmoniously..
Still I am not convinced that the sentence ( “there will not arise again a prophet like Moses in Israel ) means that prophet like Moses will come from Israel.. unless I ignore or try to interpret 》》 WILL NOT ARISE FROM ISRAEL to mean 》》 WILL ARISE FROM ISRAEL !!
It’s an analogy, not a precise parallel. The two statements mean different things in different contexts. (As you know, I am not opposed to the idea that there are actual contradictions in the Bible!)
Dr Bart ..
John 8:48 reads the following:
48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?
Do you think this accusation of Jesus being a Samaritan has to do with Theological issues related to the Samaritan Pentateuch, or with Racial differences ?
It has to do with social and ethnic identity. Sarmaritans were often considered lower-level social and religious inferiors by Judeans.
Dr Bart ..
What do you think of Deut 27:4b-6 Fragment ?
I’m not sure what you’re referring to.
Dr Bart .. it’s about a fragment from Deuteronomy 27/4 from DSS , which confirms the reading of the Samaritan Pentateuch..
For detailed informations here’s the link :
https://foundationjudaismchristianorigins.org/ftp/dead-sea-scrolls/unpub/deuteronomy27-4b-6-frag.html
Dr Bart ..
Did the New Testament *QUOTE * From the Samaritan Pentateuch?
No.
Dr Bart ..
Do think that Deut 27:4b-6 Fragment from DSS goes for the favor of the Samaritan Pentateuch?
https://foundationjudaismchristianorigins.org/ftp/dead-sea-scrolls/unpub/deuteronomy27-4b-6-frag.html
I don’t know — I’ve never looked into it.
Thank you very much Dr Bart .
What kind of influences did the writers of the Old Testament have? Were they influenced by Canaanite and Mesopotamian culture? What do scholars think about the similarities between Genesis and the Epic of Gilgamesh?
Yes, it is generally thought that numerous stories in Genesis, especially, were influenced by other Ancient Near Eastern myths and legends. The flood narrative in Gilgamesh is centuries earlier than Genesis.
I think, people like Israel Finkelstein are suggesting that NOTHING was written prior to the 8th C. Evidently, archaeology has shown that “Judah” was relatively insignificant on the world stage until after the dissolution of the northern kingdom when apparently there was a bit of a mass exodus from the north to the south, as is evidenced by archaeological findings. It seems to me that all the above jed and p all have hints of henotheism that is flatly refuted in deutero Isaiah. Does that possibly suggest that these sources predate deutero Isaiah? Any idea what the most recent ideas are?
It’s very hard to date a source based on its theological views. I know people today who call themselves Christian (and in fact that I consider very committed Christians) who do not believe that Christ always existed with the Father; but they are certainly living *after* the Council of Nicea!
Have you seen Israel Finkelstein’s proposition that nothing was written in the Judean monarchy until the late 8th C? How does that change our view of J? He claims there is scribal activity in Israel in the early 8th C so the traditional E theory still holds up, but what about J.
Yes, I think he makes a very good argument and I’m completely open to it. Those who really work on this material get way down into the weeds, where most of us fear to tread.
Hello Bart, I’ve been reading Friedman’s “Who Wrote the Bible” and in it he shows how there are two distinct stories interwoven in Numbers 16. However he doesn’t show how scholars can tell the differences between the two sources in that particular chapter. I was wondering, perhaps you could blog about that some time?
Ah, right! I do talk about that (generally, not in relatino to Numbers 16) in my new course “In the Beginning” (go to http://www.bartehrman.com/courses). The general principle is that the difference sources of the Pentateuch have different vocabularly, names for God, variant understandings of important points, etc. — so often they can be separated from one another on those grounds.
“In the book of 2 Kings we read a story about how a “book of the law” was discovered in the Temple during the reign of the good king Josiah (2 Kings 22:8). This would have been around 621 BCE. Many scholars think that this “book” was in fact the D source, or at least a large portion of it (possibly chs. 12-26), so that the book was composed some time earlier, possibly in the mid 7th”
If it was composed in the mid 7th century (i.e. around 650 BCE), that puts the gap between composition and “discovery” at around 30 years. Re-reading this (and with the hindsight of having read Dennis Folds’ guest post of 6 October 2022), I am wondering what arguments scholars have brought to bear on estimating this gap. The figure seems plausible, on the grounds that those responsible would need the patience to play a reasonably long game but not an intergenerational one.
In many ways the arguments are all circular; but there are views set forth in the text of Deuteronomy that appear clearly to presuppose a time around the reform of Josiah, which is when the book was allegedly “discovered” (or “produced”!). After that it’s a lot of guess work.
What do you think about Richard Friedman Exodus theory? He has some convincing arguments, even there’s no archeological proof
I went into the book expecting to find convincing arguments, but I’m afraid I didn’t at all. I asked a couple of Hebrew Bible scholars I know and they thought didn’t think much of it, but thought it was apologetic more than anything else.