As a rule I don’t watch a lot of films, but during the crisis Sarah and I have reinstated our weekly “movie night,” and on Friday we saw Ethan Hawke’s First Reformed. Have you seen it? I was very reluctant to do so for personal reasons. I thought it would hit to close to home. Oh boy was I right.
I’ve always loved Ethan Hawke, from Dead Poet’s Society onward. But this one was a bit hard. The movie itself is brilliant, extremely layered and thoughtful. Hawke plays the role of Rev. Toller, the pastor of a small, historic, but failing church in upstate New York. But he is losing his faith and trying to makes sense of his religion, his world, and the meaning of life. The movie doesn’t hit you over the head with the options, but if you think about what you’ve just seen carefully enough, they are there.
The backdrop to the story is that Rev. Toller is on his own, lives by himself, in a rectory connected with the church, which is a bit of a tourist attraction because it is nearly 250 years old and is of great historical significance; but during services there are literally only a handful of people who turn up. That is not the Rev. Toller’s biggest concern. He has a devastating personal history and is trying to cope with it.
He comes from a military family for generations, was himself a military chaplain, who some years earlier had urged his 18-year-old son to follow family tradition and enlist. Rev Toller’s wife was against the idea. Six months later the son was killed in Iraq. The wife could not forgive him (she was not on board with his views), and left him. He hit bottom. All of that is backdrop to the story, not portrayed).
The leader of a megachurch (played convincingly by Cedric “the Entertainer”!) had taken Rev. Toller under his patronage after he left his chaplaincy and provided him with the position at First Reformed church, where he dutifully serves even though, inside, he is torn apart. He cannot pray, he does not understand why such horrible things happen, he doesn’t fit into the world he inhabits. He keeps a hand-written diary to lay out his deep feelings.
The plot unfolds as a young couple in his church ask him for help. The husband is an extremely committed environmental activist who makes a convincing case that the climate crisis is going to worsen so badly that in two or three decades there will be massive social disruption. But the couple is expecting their first child. The husband wants his wife, Mary, to terminate the pregnancy; Rev. Toller is called in to counsel him about it.
I don’t need to spoil the plot any further, in case you haven’t seen it, in order to make the points I want to make. While the story carries on, the church, being directed and funded by the megachurch, is preparing for its 250th anniversary, and this raises all sorts of tensions in the relationship between the two pastors and their two churches, the (massively) larger and more successful of which is funded by a prominent businessman, the owner of a major company, extremely wealthy, used to getting his own way, and constantly using his financial clout to determine what happens in the church, including interfering with purely ministerial matters. Rev. Toller is torn between the arrogant and powerful capitalist funding the church that is making his little ministry possible and his own commitments that are not materialistic, nationalist, or self-centered.
It is hard to convey the powerful tensions in the movie on the level of plot, without getting into the Spoiler Details, but let me just say that it is powerful.
It is powerful on a deeper level than most people will go, because it is the kind of movie that is most significant not because of its action but because of its penetrating look at major existential issues. The basic issue: what is it that provides meaning to a transitory life? The movie explores the question within the context of the Christian tradition (there is nothing remotely pious or “religious” about the film even though it is dealing with religious themes). The film argues – without arguing a single thing, but simply portraying several lives in the course of tragic events – that neither God, nor traditional Christian religion, nor capitalist-driven modern evangelical religion, nor social and political activism, nor self-sacrifice for the good of others or even the world at large, or even the pure “imitation of Christ” apart from social or political agendas – that none of these things is what can ultimately provide meaning to those desperately trying to make sense of this life.
Something else does. To explain it here would make it seem banal. (I tried to put it in writing just now. I can’t doing it without making it seem banal. But oh my god is it right. So, watch the film.)
It can be a disturbing movie, because it is dealing with a disturbing issue, especially for those of us who do not settle for the easy answers, traditional religion, simple claims of faith, the virtues of raw capitalism, the interpenetration of capital, technology, media, and religion and the simplistic ideology that results from it; or even self-sacrifice for the sake of others and the willingness to give everything to a worthy cause. What then? What provides us with some kind of transcendence beyond our small and painful lives, lives for many too painful to endure.
That issue itself is obviously hard. But the film was especially hard for me, I have to say, for somewhat other, though related reasons. Not many people will have the same reaction to it I did. They simply can’t. The movie hit me at an unusually deep emotional level, as I was afraid it would.
The film is about a pastor of a small historic church doing his best to help the needs of his parishioners while while losing his faith. In my late 20s, just out of seminary, I was the pastor of a small historic church doing his best to help the needs of his parishioners while losing his faith.
The movie roused so many memories and feelings that it literally left me speechless. I have never experienced the agonizing pain of Rev. Toller. Nothing like it. But while pastoring the church I too had deep burdens of guilt and a sense of inadequacy. I too was coming to doubt my faith at the deepest level. And I too had the responsibility of doing my best in my position to help those in need. Like him I had trouble praying and performing the duties of the church – visiting those in need, providing pastoral counseling. It is much easier to provide comfort to those in pain when you feel confident that you understand the truth.
I should stress, I actually did enjoy a good bit of my pastoral ministry. I enjoyed preaching three weeks of the month. I enjoyed helping people. I enjoyed trying to help the church struggle along. And I was grateful for the opportunity. But it is an extremely difficult position to be in when one is losing one’s faith.
By this time, I did not hold to the complete infallibility of the Bible any longer; I was not an evangelical. But I did think Jesus was raised from the dead and was the way to salvation – even if I wasn’t committed to him being the only way. Even so, I regularly admitted to myself that I continued to believe in the Christian message in some more or less literal way (in large part because my position in the church was *forcing* me to believe it). And I suspected that as soon as I left the church, and had no compulsion to continue believing, I might well realize I did not believe. And that is indeed what happened.
It wasn’t because of the Bible. It was because of all the suffering – in evidence even in a small community church such as that, everyday suffering to be sure, but also some very extreme suffering, with sickness, death, disaster, and suicide, much of it for no obvious “reason” or “sense.”
Seeing some of that up close and personal (pastors see far more of it than the regular ole human being…) helped seal the deal for me. I hung on for a while. Leaving the faith ended up taking some years. But it was emotionally traumatic. My Christian faith had literally been the world for me. I was willing to do just about anything for it; certainly die for it if I was called to do so. You can’t just abandon that kind of deeply-seated commitment overnight, and without some serious scarring. Most of my life I can ignore the scars, but this movie reopened some of the wounds. I think that’s probably a good thing, even if it hasn’t been very pleasant.
But we all have to wrestle with our pasts – not just our presents and our futures. I am very glad indeed that I pastored that church for a short while, as well as the other ministries that I was involved with over the years (as youth pastor, director of Christian education, teacher, Bible study leader, etc….): there were loving friendships, good fellowship, helpful things that we all did as a community for one another and for others outside. But looking back, I remember the emotional difficulties more than happy moments. Since that was nearly four decades ago, I imagine that’s how it will always be. The surprise for me, over the past couple of days, is just how raw it still is.
Thank you for taking the time to talk about something so deeply personal for you.
And- thanks for the movie recommendation! I’d never heard of this one and have ordered the DVD through Netflix. -bw
First Reformed is indeed an excellent film, for all the reasons you mention. Thanks, Bart, for your honest and vulnerable post.
Bart
Love the movie because it was written and directed by Paul Schrader. He often touches on the depravity of men which is reflected in his other films such as Taxi Driver, Raging Bull (screenwriter) and numerous others. Apparently First Reformed is his most personal work as it plays so closely to his Calvinist upbringing in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Schrader said he wrote main character as a Travis Bickle type..
So does it hit close to home? Oh yes it did for me in like manner. As I think of my life years ago in the same church as Schrader, Christian Reformed Church, I know the struggle of leaving it behind, let alone making sense of things.
Would like to also point out another academic to come out of the same tradition as Schrader is Alvin Plantinga, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga)
Just some information for your readers, “First Reformed” is a fictional congregation of the “Reformed Church in America” (RCA). The RCA calls itself the “oldest protestant denomination in the US with a continuous mission” as it was founded by Dutch Calvinists in Nieuw Amsterdam (today’s New York City) in 1628. There still are many revolutionary war-era churches in Manhattan and up and down the Hudson River to Albany. The most well known is the “Old Dutch Church” which was the setting for Washington Irving’s “Legend of Sleepy Hollow” and the Marble Collegiate Church in NYC, best known for being led by Dr. Norman Vincent Peale in the 60’s. The RCA is a relatively small, mainline denomination that still retains a bit of its pragmatic Dutch character.
Writer/ Director Paul Schrader was a member of the “Christian Reformed Church” which is a more conservative sister denomination which broke away from the RCA in the 1850’s. Schrader rebelled against his stern, Calvinist upbringing. He is famous, of course, for writing “Raging Bull”, “Taxi Driver” and other award winning films.
Thank you for this. It is exciting to live in an age when experiences and ideas can be expressed regarding religion that acknowledge profound changes in our willingness to explore doubt. It is wonderful for those of us who live in places where this can happen without fear of death. Obviously expressing such ideas in parts of the world would be met with death. But change, even incremental change, is welcome to this writer.
I don’t think you have wasted your time when you were christian, after all some how it make you realize and see the needs of the people and yes the bible had errors, mistranslations, etc; but the point of the bible is to make you a better person and here you are helping people thru this blog. So not everything was bad, life it’s a process that makes us mature little by little. So keep up the good work! Sorry about my English, Spanish is my native language. Regards.
I think a lot of us will have a hard time finding words to respond to this post Bart. What comes up for me is primarily gratitude. There are a few people in this world for whose existence I am grateful. People with intelligence, vision, discipline, sincerity, integrity, honesty, humility, creativity, generosity, courage, patience. It’s an elite group and those who belong to it don’t see themselves as members. I’m an old man and I’ve had time to reflect on and gauge many things so I’m not being impulsive when I say that you are one of them. Thanks.
Thanks, I appreciate ti.
I don’t think I’m entitled to say “I feel your pain”. but I know I have gone through similar comfort zone shattering upheavals in my faith. Raised a Jehovah’s Witness, with no doubt in what I was taught as “Truth”, the rug was pulled out from under me before I was twenty. 6 years later I excepted mainstream Christianity and dedicated my life to it, but found so many holes in scriptural continuity, that I found myself drifting further and further from the faith my brothers and sisters cling to. I am a pastor of two UMC churches now, and I consider my ministry a real blessing, but what I believe is still very different than the beliefs of my congregants. However, I consider my “calling” to be largely involved in freeing scripture from misconception and misuse, and I want you to know that I am very grateful to all that you have done in illuminating scripture and scriptural development in the most non-bias way I have ever been exposed to. It’s funny that, as a believer, I still consider consultation of your work as my first “go-to” over any other commentary source.
You are doing, a very important work.
Maybe someone should make a movie about you?
It would be mind-numbingly dull….
I think the title would be “The truth is in the Ehr, man.
Surely “To Hew is Ehrman”.
Not if you were played by Tom Hardy.
Well, it would have to be the acting, not the story line….
Dear Bart,
Thank you so much for your uncompromising honesty regarding your personal struggles. Your forthrightness adds a refreshing new dimension to your always engaging, but most often consumate
academic and analytical persona.
I think I understand what you mean by “just how raw it still is.”
I wish you well. I’ll check out the movie.
Thank you for this excellent movie review; I’ll definitely find and watch this movie. More importantly, thank you for sharing so much of yourself in this review. Your search for meaning and truth resonate strongly with me in that I still find myself in my eighty-fourth year searching for that which is true in religion and life. Raised a Catholic and a seminarian for a couple of years, I thought I had it all figured out until about ten years ago. Now I question most of what I have been taught when it comes to religion. Interestingly, this doesn’t bother me; truth matters more.
Your blog is excellent and I’m extremely grateful for finding it recently. You’re still ministering to a congregation; only the format has changed.
Dr Ehrman. as someone who has also lost his faith but continues to seek spiritual truth, I found this film to be spot on ..when I was getting my undergraduate I had the opportunity to stand on the pastor’s side of the pulpit. I gave several sermons and worked with church members during some of their difficult times..I lost my faith as I saw the suffering and pain of these people and the empty attempts made by the church to help them …I’m glad this film was made and that you have reviewed it …your work continues to astound me on so many levels ..thank you for your devotion to the truth…
Beautifully written. I will be sure to watch the film. Thank you for sharing Bart.
Two anti-God positions concerning the bible are:
1 – I disbelieve God because of the tragedy of life
2 – I hate God because of the tragedy of life.
DISBELIEVING God because of suffering presumes God would not allow suffering, therefore there’s no God. Perversely, long periods of peace and prosperity see religion decline.
HATING God because He allows suffering is also curious. “All gods dispense suffering without reason.” writes Hurston, but what Jordan Peterson calls the “tragedy of life” helps us to grow as adults. A life of endless indulgences, as Solomon enjoyed, made him a dark figure. We can be offended when someone is free to hurt another – but that comes from our free will, and the loss of this freedom could cause us to also hate God. And the meekness of Christ, Dawkins’ “milk sop persona” is subject to ridicule.
Job and David’s suffering gave them beautiful pictures of Jesus – the one who suffered and became our Redeemer.
‘Perversely, long periods of peace and prosperity see religion decline.’ Hmm. Is that why the USA is the most religious of the ‘developed’ countries of the world? Because it is so deprived and violent? Just curious.
Not sure if I can answer here. Religion is more entrenched in America than Europe. But the same decline is obvious. Americans now talk about a “post religious generation.”
“Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to? You will never find that life for which you are looking. When the gods created man they allotted to him death, but life they retained in their own keeping. As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night, night and day, dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of man.”
This problem does not reduce how you turn the religious view.
Although I go to science, we can basically say quantum physics which is the basis of physics at the quantum level. In this science, consciousness is / is the energy behind all creation (according to Max Planc, the intelligent energy). This science is pretty much equivalent to religion from an esoteric side, such as Christianity Gnosism etc, Esoteric Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and more. They unite in an inner spiritaul/concious understanding of the soul’s origion, and final return stretching the spiritual geography much wider.
Even Carl Jung was deeply rooted in this seeking Gnosticism in the pursuit of knowledge in his field of psychology.
Even from my life, from my experiences in life, I can so very well relate to your pain of living in a world of so much pain, and I still can’t find any relief.
As cliche as it may sound, “Understanding does not cure evil, but it is a definite help, insofar as one can cope with an understandable darkness.” (Jung). In this sense (as charity or more) it seems to me, we must work and deal with it individually and collectively, as the only way to improve.
Must see the movie– needless to say it didn’t make the local theaters. If you someday decide to write a book about your own struggles, kind of a spiritual autobiography, It would be a book well worth reading. But I know it would be difficult to write, maybe painful. Someday?
Yeah, don’t know. Seems like I’ve talked about that a lot in a couple of my books. Or so people tell me!
Along those lines, have you read Barbara Brown Taylor’s book: Leaving Church? It has only been a few weeks since I read it. Very thought-provoking in the same way. For me, it was the most eloquent book I have ever read. She was listed by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential Americans. Not bad for one who was the pastor/priest of a rural Episcopal church.
I have ordered First Reformed. Looking forward to it. Thanks for your honest and perceptive comments.
Good morning Bart,
Really quick question. What is your opinion on taxing the church? I have no strong opinion either way but I am curious as to your viewpoint.
Love the Blog.
Thanks,
Niels Schonberg,
Oshawa, Ontario
I think church and state should remain completely separate.
“I’m completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.”
George Carlin
Ha! Somehow I don’t think he would have changed his tune if he were still alive today. And oh boy could we use him now….
Wanted to wait a day to see some comments before leaving my own, plus I needed a day to process that movie. I watched it privately immediately after reading your post. So glad I didn’t invite my wife to watch it with me, on Mothers Day especially. It’s one of those things I wish I could unsee. So much darkness and pain and then that weird and abrupt ending. And ultimately I came away with nothing, no take-aways, no lessons, no application. Even a day later I still can’t truly understand it or what I’m supposed to do with it. But, I subscribe to this blog to learn and to be exposed to things that challenge me and it certainly did that. That movie disturbed me. The fact that you saw some of your past in it tells me that losing your faith must have been 1000 times worse than how I felt losing mine, and my journey has been no picnic.
Thanks. I saw the ending as amazingly redemptive. It showed clearly where meaning lies. Not in God, the church, capitalist greed, social and political activism, personal sacrifice, imitation of Christ. It lies in one place only: deep and even unexpected love from other humans who share your pain.
Exactly. Redemptive is the word. The ending took my breath away because I was totally prepared for something very different, something ghastly. I immediately understood why you originally found it difficult to explain the meaning without becoming banal. Movies such as this can be close to spiritual experiences. Overall, “Reformed” reminded me of Ingmar Bergman movies, which also are often not the most pleasant to view but which challenge us to ask the questions about what truly matters.
I looked forward to viewing this movie. I appreciate your excellent review and willingness to be as direct and clear about your own experience of loss, grief, joy. It’s quite a ride heh? Mine has taken 80+ years and is a work in progress. Thanks for your help along the way….by simply hearing your story. The movie, and I understand it’s trying to convey the terrible anguish of the soul, is awful. I see no point in picking it apart. It left an awful “taste in my mouth.” I certainly don’t recommend it.
I always am grateful to you and I’d kiss your cheeks if I could; in the Biblical sense of course.
Bart
A couple more items. The writer/director Schrader having gone through a fundamentalist/Calvinistic upbringing left the fold as you did but he went into movie making. Ironically he never saw a movie as a child due to his strict background. I think his great appeal is the same as yours, someone who left the fold and used his highly driven nature to succeed which had assisted many in the process. My appreciation to both of you.
Here, we witness the courage of a leader. Thanks, Dr Ehrman.
Bart: I was remind of Robert Duvall’s “Apostle,” one of my favorite movies that takes place in the context of a very different type of Christianity. That movies comes to a different conclusion in terms of how spiritual meaning can be found in the midst of despair. I’ll try to see First Reformed. Have you seen Apostle?
Yes indeed! Love Duvall….
Love that too. I feel like that’s another one with multiple possible interpretations. Either he’s sincere or he’s a real piece of work. Either way, it’s quite a show. And that analysis kind of extends to the whole phenomenon of revivalism. You’re either swept up in its redemptive power or these people are out of their minds. And there are other dimensions to the film as well, of course.
Disturbing movie. I could empathize up to the point he tells the minister of music that he despised her. From there on out I could not understand what he did other than to label it a serious mental breakdown. I’ve been down serious tunnels of depression but I never contemplated taking others out with me.
Yeah, it does seem like a breakdown, and the “I despise you” part is very disturbing. The reason, of course, is that he ties the guilt from their affair to the death of his son, and her presence reminds him of it. But it is definitely a point of breakdown, culminating in that little barbed wire moment! But redeemed by unexpected love. Amazing sequence.
Yeah, the end when he’s got the barbed wire on under his robe and the rush into each other arms caught me off guard. One thing I can say is that that couple definitely stuck together.
Yeah, I was telling her not to hug too hard. But I guess the close embrace with barbed wire was part of the point. The love he received did not remove the pain but came precisely within his pain.
Hmmm??? Well, that puts a different spin on it. Thanks for adding that.
I am looking forward to watching it this week. I enjoyed watching the four seasons of Greenleaf on Netflix. While fictional. the writers had a very keen knowledge of the behind the scenes in megachurches and the private life’s so many of them lives.
‘It wasn’t because of the Bible. It was because of all the suffering – in evidence even in a small community church such as that, everyday suffering to be sure, but also some very extreme suffering, with sickness, death, disaster, and suicide, much of it for no obvious “reason” or “sense.””
I’m struck by the similarity between your loss of faith and what Dan Barker experienced. He says that all you need to do is visit the children’s ward in any hospital, see the parents of those terminally ill children on their knees praying to God to save their child, and noting that their prayers are not answered to know that God does not exist. Those children receiving intercessory prayer have the same survival rates as children who are not prayed for despite John 14:13.
Double blind studies of the effectiveness (i.e. the worth) of intercessory prayer show the same results. Dan says nothing fails like prayer. I wonder how many other indoctrinated Christian believers have lost their faith due to gratuitous suffering and the ineffectiveness of prayer.
How about an inspiring film where the protagonist chooses something more crucial to freedom than the atomic bomb? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMqeoW3XRa0
Wow. He literally was saved by Love.
Yup!! Amazing ending.
I was disappointed… Ending was telegraphed and I didn’t find it credible in the sense that the underlying problems had much chance of being resolved. Yes, the immediate crisis was averted but for me it didn’t conjure hope. But that’s art for you I guess. Eye of the beholder.
Maybe. Some have also interpreted that ending as either his dying fantasy or his vision of heaven. Does he drink the drain cleaner or not? How did Mary get into the rectory when the other pastor, who presumably knows the place pretty well, could not? She behaves differently. The camera spins in a way we haven’t seen before. I think that it’s open to interpretation whether it’s real or not and I think that Schrader has admitted as much. (I had the same thought as others here. Don’t squeeze too hard! Given the barbed wire)
Interesting. I would take it to be a “miracle,” not a dream, since, well, he clearly does not drink the drain cleaner and the other “dream” sequence was based on something that actually happened (with Mary, as it turns out)
Thanks for the lead! Just ordered the movie.
Wow. Thanks for this Bart. Looking forward to catching this film with my wife on our own Covid-lockdown movie nights as we continue to dismantle and inspect our own evangelical roots.
Thank you so much for this post. I, like so many, was a Pastor while evolving out of faith in a supernatural, interventionist god. The stress/guilt was so terrible that I spent a year in my own dark night of the soul, only to lose everything. The only thing I lost that surprised me was the love and support of the church. It was immediate and forever.
Thank you so much for all you do Dr. Ehrman.
This was an outstanding film on so many levels.
May I also recommend “The Apostle” (1997) starring and directed by Robert Duvall, also with Farrah Fawcett, Billy Bob Thornton, June Carter Cash, Miranda Richardson.
Also “Boy Erased” (2018) based on Garrard Conley’s 2016 memoir. Written and directed by Joel Edgerton, starring Nicole Kidman, Russell Crowe. Lucas Hedges won a golden globe and went to North Carolina.
Have you watched the Netflix show “Messiah”?
The main character is exactly how I imagine the real Jesus acted (probably looked as well).
Nope, just heard about it.
Thank you for posting this. I share a similar history. Grew up in a conservative religious home. My Dad was a pastor. After college I earned my MDiv from a conservative seminary and pastored for 10 years in various capacities. Then the faith struggle began. I appreciate your comments about the scars you still carry. That resonated with me. I look forward to watching the movie.
Dear Bart,
In your response (May 12, 2020) to “gbsinkers” re: “First Reformed”, I was somewhat surprised to hear you say, “It showed clearly where MEANING lies.” I’m trying to square this with your oft expressed affinity for the message of Ecclesiasties, which is that life indeed HAS no meaning or purpose.
Maybe I’m missing some nuance here.
I think Ecclesiastes locates meaning in the simple pleasures of life, to be enjoyed for as long as one can, since nothing else endures or matters.
Dear Bart,
As I was reflecting on your comment, ” [a] deep and unexpected love from other humans who share your pain,” It got me thinking about those challenging words, attributed to Jesus, (paraphrase) to not only love your neighbor as yourself, but to love your enemies and to do good to those who hate you; in essence, to live for others with no thought or expectation of recompense.
I was wondering; In all your studies and scholarly work on other religions or bodies of theological or philosophical thought, have you ever run across any ethos that is in any way similar to or on a par with that found in the 4 gospels as I have described it above?
It certainly would have been unusual in Jesus’ environment. But yes, others have argued for the same thing, Mahatma Gandhi among them.
I greatly admire your intellectual courage in finding your way to where you are now. I don’t completely agree with your views but rational dialogue does not require that we always agree. I questioned everything including all authorities at a very young age as a teenager. I felt isolated and alone in a culture dominated by traditional Christian beleifs. My own views are far more nuanced than what most Christians believe. I have found great comfort in following your personal journey as it is so similar to mine. Your willingness to be open and honest about your journey has been an inspiration to me. Thank you for sharing that especially in this well written post. I do agree with your conclusion. It is through those closest to us, family and friends alike, that we find the most powerful love and meaning in our lives. Thank you for all that you do.
I worry about some of those in ministry during the time we find ourselves in. The forced isolation and struggle with similar existential issues must be rough for some.
Thanks to you and John for posting this on the blog and podcast. Great film.
I did see this around when it first came out during its limited run. It’s quirky and the ending is really something, but I very much enjoyed it. As you say, it strikes you more for the themes it raises rather than being straightforwardly plot-driven. It’s about his crisis of faith, of course, but it also made me think more about the moral stakes of the climate crisis. It kind of shocks the viewer into thinking about that to the extent that they empathize with Toller.
Wow! Thanks for sharing this and I will look for the film. Your best book will be the autobiography of you religious journey.
Dear Bart,
Upon reflection, I realize that my comments/questions were insensitive. I sincerely apologize.
I don’t recall finding them so! I tend not to post the ones that I think are going a bit too far…
Just watched the movie. I struggled for years trying to find the meaning of Christendom. ‘Love your enemies’. Does God/Jesus love Satan? Years ago, in Sunday school, I wondered how Jesus could miss the boat so that he had to come walking on water. The Sunday school teacher taught the *truth* that Jesus knows future. If somehow I know even little bit of my own related future events, I never would’ve missed a bus or a train. 4 years ago, I missed a flight in Dubai! So, how can Jesus choose to not know the future temporarily? So that he can demonstrate a water walking miracle? My aunt was a miracle worker! Whenever she visits, my mom used to force me to get a prayer done with her hand on my head! I asked her this ‘Jesus future’ question. “God will vomit you out if you doubt” was her response! So, even as a skeptic, when I scrapped off my faith altogether, in Bart’s words, I had to do it with screaming and kicking! I can’t imagine Bart and some of you spending years preaching/praying only to painfully realize you can no longer sustain that faith! You deserve Ovation!
Dr. Erhman, I’m a HUGE fan – I watched so many of your debates on YouTube and the free Great Courses lectures. I just watched the movie you mention in this blog and I found it to be very engaging. The end was difficult to watch.
I hope you will keep posting and doing all you are doing –it’s a gift to humanity with inestimable value. Did I mention I’m a huge fan?
Thanks! Yup, I found the whole thing difficult, but worth it.
I watched this last night with my wife. I am an ex Chuch leader – having spent all my youth preparing for ministry, I stepped down in my early thirties (so I got out early).
I guess I just wanted to let you know that I resonate with everything you said in the post, but I felt like the film didn’t hit me in any powerful way at all. Which really surprised me.
My wife laughingly said at the end ‘if he is wrong about a film then what else is he wrong about’. Tounge and cheek all the way, as we don’t think you are ‘wrong’ about the film at all, it just hit you very differently that it hit me or my wife.
I guess something like ‘leaving my fathers faith’ by Bart Campolo hit me far harder when I watched it.
Just some thoughts.
Ah, I don’t think it is empirically possible to be wrong about finding a film powerful! It’s kind of like not finding an apple delicious! Different strokes for different taste buds…. But, yeah, I get it…. In my case it stirred up very painful memories; but if someone doesn’t have those memories, it won’t stir them up!
I am late to comment. I am responding not so much to the film itself but to your words about the suffering in the world and how it contributed to your loss of faith, a decision which obviously continues to cause you a great deal of personal turmoil. I come from the opposite perspective as one who was raised Catholic, abandoned faith in my early twenties and remained staunchly agnostic for most of my adult life. If there was a God cruel enough to allow suffering, who wanted to worship Him anyway? But today, I have found faith again and through the most painful grief imaginable. I lost my son to suicide. How is it possible I could turn back to God? The only answer I have is that when I was brought to my knees, there was no one left to call upon but God. It is the only peace I can find.