Loading...Here is another tidbit from the Hebrew Bible section of first edition of my textbook that covered Genesis to Revelation, book-by-book, now being edited for a third edition with Joel Baden.
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Hello Dr.Bart Erhman
In isaiah 53 the suffering servent is probably the jews that were sent to exile like you said on yesterdays post. But there is a passage in isaiah 53 that says that the suffering servent was despised by mankind. If so then did the non exiled jews also despise the exiled jews. What do you think?
I think it means that they were widely seen as weak, conquered, and pitiful. But I don’t think we can press teh language too hard, or they don’t work as metaphors. If I say “everyone hates me” it is expressing a sentiment, not a literal fact.
Dear Bart,
A friend of mine has seen a clip from ‘The Chosen’ where it shows Judas agreeing to betray Jesus to the high priest. In the dramatisation, Judas is explicit that he thinks Jesus is most likely the Messiah. My friend asked me if that’s what went down. I showed him the brief narration in Mark and Matthew, and in both, there’s no indication one way or another.
So I was then asking myself – did the historical Judas believe Jesus was the Messiah when he agreed to betray him? In the biblical accounts, Judas is depicted as full of remorse afterward, so perhaps he did? Or maybe he didn’t at the time, but then changed his mind?
I know you’ve researched Judas extensively, so I’d like to ask you – at the time Judas agreed to betray Jesus, do you think he still believed Jesus was the Messiah?
It’s debated, insofar as some readers have wondered if Judas betrayed him because he thought Jesus was the military leader who would drive out the Romans but saw that he was hesitating to rouse the crowds to revolt once he arrive in Jersualem, and so tried to force his hand by arranging for him to be arrested, thinking Jesus would call out ant eh crowds would come to his support leading to the beginning of a revolt. I suppose that’s possible but I think it’s impossible to show, and there are other good reasons for Judas betraying him (ticked off at discovering he was *not* the messiah he was hoping he’d be, ge.e.) that see more convincing to me. I give a fuller account in my book on the Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot.
Could Logos in John be translated as Wisdom or Reason, instead of Word? I like the idea of Jesus actually being Wisdom or Reason as Christians don’t tend to give those virtues as much emphasis as they should. Of course translating Logos as Wisdom or Reason because they like the concept would be very bad form for Bible translators.
Not Wisdom, but possibly Reason since that’s what it can mean in a sense.. But it’d be a bit of a stretch given the context I think.
I’ve encountered arguments suggesting many of the religious beliefs we now associate with Judaism emerged during the reforms of Hezekiah/Josiah who promoted monotheism in response to the Assyrian conquest in 722BCE. Others point to possible Egyptian influence, particularly Pharaoh Akhenaten, noting similarities between his “Great Hymn to the Aten” (circa 1350 BCE) and Psalm 104. Others argue that Jewish theology was developed after the Babylonian exile, influenced by Zoroastrianism following the Persian conquest in 538BCE. Still others suggest that portions of the Hebrew Bible were shaped in response to Greek conquest (333 BCE). What do you think?
Perhaps texts like Proverbs 8 were written in dialogue with Greek philosophical ideas, such as Plato’s concept of an ideal realm from which all things derive. Later thinkers like Philo of Alexandria attempted to harmonize Jewish theology with Greek philosophy. But I wonder whether some biblical texts were also written to challenge aspects of Hellenistic thought. In that light, Wisdom (Sophia) in Proverbs 8 functions as a mediator between the divine and human realms. God’s Sophia is described as the “master worker” in creation, and Philo’s Logos might be viewed as the rational structure or blueprint that Sophia uses to build the world?
I think it’s entirely possible that a lot of what became traditoinal Jewish theology is post-exilic. I do not think, though, that there’s good evidence for Zoroastrian influence, even thought that’s a popular theory. One of the major problems is knowing how to date the Zoroastrian texts themselves. Certainly Ecclesiastes, to pick another example of late rinfluence , was heaveily influenced by Epicurianism.
When it comes to Proverbs 8, you seem to lean toward the view that early Israelites—prior to the solidification of their theological framework in the Torah—may have believed Yahweh had a female consort, which could explain the feminine portrayal of Wisdom in this passage. If that’s the case, do you think Proverbs 8 might have originated before Hezekiah’s religious reforms around 722 BCE?
On the other hand, it’s also possible that the author of Proverbs 8 was deliberately rooting creation in God’s attribute of wisdom as a way to challenge emerging philosophical ideas—perhaps as a response to Greek concepts of a separate, ideal realm. But if so, that would place the composition of Proverbs 8 after Alexander’s arrival in 333 BCE.
Of course, it’s also worth considering that Proverbs 8 could simply be a literary personification, typical of Jewish poetic tradition, and maybe we’re projecting too much onto it.
It is almost impossible to date Proverbs, but I don’t think there would be much enthusiasm as putting it back in the 8th century. As you indicate, ch. 8 is usually taken to be a literary personification, or hypotheses, comparable to the “Logos” in, say, Philo.