
Hello Everyone,
I realised recently that I’ve come across a few accounts by well-read people, who said that they lost their faith when they studied the bible in-depth.
I was wondering if that was the case for many people here?
I saw an interview with Dr. Joshua Bowen of ‘The Athiest Handbooks to the Old Testament’ where he said that it was hours into his study that he lost his faith. I think that’s probably an extreme case.
Thank you.

I’m not a huge NdGT fan, but he gave a ** you do not have permission to see this link ** on this issue a while back. I’m not sure how solid his statistics are, but assuming they are in the ballpark, it is still quite interesting. (It’s the first half of the video I found interesting, wherein he looked at the trends of education and belief in a personal God who listens to prayers; the rest of the talk is less interesting.)

As both Robert and NdGT point out, I think it is imperative to clarify what we mean by “God” or “faith”.
I, for example, won’t label myself an atheist, but I also don’t believe there is a personal God who is active in human affairs (answering prayers, working miracles, providentially guiding history and so forth). Insofar as there is a thing we can reasonably refer to as “god” (a necessary being that explains why there is something rather than nothing, or a ground of the intelligibility of creation, or a source for our standard of justice and moral goodness) I think that thing is both shrouded in mystery and very different in key respects from anything we find described in the major revealed religions.

One more thing:
If we keep ourselves a certain way with the goal of having God with us and, if we are open to God’s presence in our lives, I believe we can “know” Him and even see Him in our lives. There have been occasions that only through His Grace could I have been as I was in something I said or did. Then there are ways He helps me! I’m not at all good at merging onto interstates so am grateful for the endless times there are ample openings. It is indeed crazy but so is living with faith.

I can’t really argue with other people’s personal experience, but I can comment on my own:
I had many times in my life where it seemed like someone was watching out for me. One time that pops to mind: I had to go through a public lecture for a degree: I submitted something like 12 proposed topics, then about 48 hrs before the lecture they told me which I would lecture on, then I would give the lecture and take questions both from the board and from the public. Keep in mind, I witnessed people crash and burn on these–actually fail and not get the degree. In hindsight, I realized that several of the topics I’d proposed were topics I absolutely was not well enough versed in to give a respectable academic lecture on: I realized in hindsight, I could absolutely have failed spectacularly. But the topic they picked turned out to be one that I had absolutely mastered–the whole talk was written and I knew the material inside and out. It would be easy to see that as some sort of divine intervention.
But then I wonder, like Bart, why would God look out for me in pursuing something as trivial as a degree, and ignore, for example, the pleas of those mothers living through famine who have to watch their suckling infants cry themselves to death as their milk supply dries up from malnutrition? And if God is answering prayers, wouldn’t we expect believers to do measurably better in life than non-believers–recovering more often from terminal conditions and getting good jobs that they want? I mean, if prayer does anything, over a broad enough sample, we should see its effects manifest in statistically significant ways. I don’t see much evidence of that. It seems more likely that what actually happens is a matter of luck, and we just attach significance to the times that it seems like things turned out particularly well, and we write off the times that things seem to turn out poorly. If we do face the times we rolled snake-eyes, we explain them away–God has a plan, he’s letting this happen to me for a reason even if I can’t understand it just yet–thus making our belief in providence unfalsifiable. We can always just indulge the cliche that when God closes a door he opens a window and call it good. Or maybe we instead say God is giving me a chance for spiritual growth and humility–since those things are more important that earthly success.
Something I’ve found particularly ironic is that things worked out perfectly for me to lose my faith: If things had gone as I’d planned, I would have had tenure at a very conservative Catholic college by the time I lost my faith–the sort of place where a theologian is required to adhere strictly to Catholic dogma–, and my family would have been dependent on that income, creating a very significant obstacle to my admitting that Catholicism isn’t true. If things had gone according to much earlier plan, I would have been a priest–even more personally invested in the truth of Catholicism, and in a position where it was even more imperative to maintain the ruse of believing. As it was, the whole vocation thing didn’t pan out, and neither did the career at a conservative Catholic school, and that gave me a lot of freedom to admit that things weren’t adding up. If I were a believer, I’d say someone had saved me from myself, and put the pieces in place to facilitate my loss of faith. Things worked out so perfectly, and so contrary to my plans, that even now I feel tempted to thank God for unanswered prayers, it just that those unanswered prayers let me lose faith in a God who attends to prayers.

It’s not the mystery I find objectionable; I am perfectly happy to acknowledge things are true that I can’t understand. My issue is that, from where I sit, I can find no good reason to think there is a God who rules the world providentially in the first place.
If we start by saying there certainly is such a God, then I don’t have a problem saying we can’t understand his providence.
But the first issue is whether there is any reason to think there is such a God in the first place. That’s what I’m at a loss to find, and the only alternative I can see simple fideism.

And I can’t take serendipity as evidence of providence unless we can measure it and show it is more than we would expect just from chance. We know too much about human psychology (specifically things like confirmation bias) for me to just accept that anecdotes of some things occasionally turning out well against all odds is evidence of providence.
Humans can find purpose even where there is none. We naturally focus on the times that things defy our expectations, or times that seem to indicate purpose and planning, especially if those things reinforce a prior belief, and ignore that many other times they don’t.
The Spanish blamed the storm that sank the Armada on the devil, while the English saw it as the hand of God. Who was right? Or maybe neither was and it was just a freak gale.
Again, if God is answering prayers for things like healing of diseases or getting jobs, we should be able to find a statistically significant difference in the fortunes of those who who pray (or at least who have religious family who pray for them) and those who don’t. But I don’t see evidence of that outside of anecdotes that are entirely compatible with chance. Sometimes people just have good luck; sometimes they don’t. Before we can say good luck is a sign of a providential God (or guardian angels or any other intelligent force intervening on our behalf) we have to make sure we are not just selectively picking data.
As someone who openly identifies as an atheist, and for whom historical critical study of the Bible contributed to that position, I would still NOT claim that my experience would be applicable to everyone. So, no, I don’t think study automatically leads to atheism. As Robert said, fundamentalism doesn’t survive sustained critical thinking. But any system of belief that can’t withstand a collision with the truth is not worth very many regrets.
I’m open to the idea that there might be some fundamental organizing principle at work in the universe, but you still need to provide some reason to think so. And where do we see any reason to think this fop has any interest in the fortunes of individual human beings?
ps: When I say that historical critical study of the Bible led in part to my atheism, what I mean is that I came to realize that the Bible was not magic but was a product of normal human cultural development. I could find nothing divine about it. The Bible was like all other sacred writings in all other cultures, both time bound and culture specific. I stopped claiming to be a Christian when I came to realize that I no longer believed in the resurrection. (Paul’s criterion.) I identified as an atheist when I came to realize I could find no reason to think there was a god.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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