Hello Everyone,
Thank you very much for your replies, it’s interesting to read what you all think, and to have such a diverse range of backgrounds and points of view.
I’m in a bit of a strange place belief-wise. For the last three or so years I’ve been living with Religious Scrupulosity, which is a form of OCD.
The main theme of mine has been the fear that God will harm people I care about to punish me. It’s been a bit of a challenge, I haven’t been able to work since it came and my life has pretty much come to a complete halt.
When it hit me, I began searching for books on Christianity to try and find different viewpoints, and Prof. Ehrman was one of the main ones I came across.
It’s funny because I was pretty much an agnostic when it hit me, and since then I’ve basically been trying to convince myself that God isn’t real. I can’t seem to see the God of Love that a lot of people preach about, I come away with a lot of cognitive dissonance – especially from the Old Testament, so I tend to hunt down content that’s more on the myth side.
It’s been great to read the information in the forums and see what people believe and their theories.
Thank you again for your replies, I really appreciate you taking the time:)
I think that studying the Bible almost invariably leads one away from fundamentalism. One finds that one’s beliefs either have no scriptural basis or are based on faulty interpretation of the texts upon which they were based.
I don’t think it necessarily leads to atheism. In my case, it didn’t.
I think that studying the Bible almost invariably leads one away from fundamentalism.
While still a conservative Catholic, I always bemoaned the state of Scripture scholarship; even at otherwise very conservative Catholic schools, the Scripture program would be full of professors who would flat out deny points of Catholic doctrine or at least openly flirt with condemned positions. (There are exceptions, but they are few, and those few are rarely very accomplished by the standards of the academy–Brant Pitre is the only one I can think of off-hand.) The entire field was, in my view, pretty thoroughly rotten. I would say that if you are an orthodox Catholic and want to learn Scripture today, you would be better off in a Patristics program.
Once I stopped believing, I could acknowledge the obvious reason for that.
I couldn’t figure out how to protect the anonymity of all the people involved without making the story less interesting
I suspect half of what it takes to succeed as an author of fiction is making episodes you lived through and people you know well read like events you imagined and characters you dreampt up. The other half would be making events you imagined and characters you dreampt up read like episodes you lived through and people you know.
Boy, you sure would have hated me! Of course I’m a nobody, at best I was a scholar wannabe at the time, but we might also have had very enjoyable discussions over a beer or two.
Depending on a million factors, I might have just been confused by you, though the longer the conversation went on, the more likely confusion and fascination would have given way to frustration and, given enough time going around in circles, anger (if I thought, after talking, that you knew better) or disappointment (if I had thought you knew better, but realized you didn’t).
Thank you very much Robert:)
I’m really sorry to hear that your nephew dealt with it too, it sounds as though he’s had it pretty rough. I hope he’s doing a bit better now.
Thank you for your kind words about Jesus, a bit of reassurance from him would come in handy:)
His becoming an athiest is definitely something to meditate on, that could have some interesting outcomes!
I’m lucky that I have someone that I speak to every couple of weeks about it, we haven’t made much progress but it’s nice to be able to vent to someone. I’ve had a recent medication review and change so fingers crossed that will help when it kicks in:)
Thank you Stephen, that’s a good point:)
Thank you for your question Steefen, that’s a tricky one.
One of the first things that comes up for me when I think about my image of God is the story of Job, where he allowed 10 of his children to die for a bet.
And then Abraham being told to sacrifice his son, even if he was told later that he didn’t have to.
Then there are the accounts in the old testament that seem to show God condoning Rape, Infanticide, Genocide and some other rough things.
I’ve heard some people explain them away as parables or symbolism, but when they’re not explicitly presented that way it’s hard to take that view.
Please don’t think I’m trying to be argumentative or a jerk, I’m happy to admit that there’s so much I don’t know about the bible, but from what I’ve read it’s not a stretch for me to think that God would hurt my loved ones to punish me.
I’d love to be able to see God in a caring light but I just can’t, I can’t see him being anywhere near a loving God.
Even Jesus says that he’s come to turn families against each other.
Is there a way that you see the stories in the bible?
Thank you.
I’ve thought about that too Robert, that could be how it is.
But when it’s presented as the Word of God, it should be taken that way?
Christianity seems so hard to follow (from my point of view), and even the book that represents it has so many interpretations. It’s hard to know what is symbolic and what is considered historial and true.
I guess that’s one place where faith comes into it?
But then again, what if you’re wrong (You as in anyone generally).
Then there’s the whole hell thing too.
But then again, what if you’re wrong
Ahh, yes. Pascal’s haunting question.
I hit a point where I realized if God wanted me to believe certain things or live by certain rules (rules I didn’t already know to be true by the light of my own reason), or worship him in some specific manner then he is perfectly capable of making it absolutely clear to me what he wants from me and of not leaving me to sort through a million dubious claims made by others. After all, on the traditional Christian account, he is omnipotent. I doesn’t cost him any trouble to communicate with me.
Why shouldn’t he talk to me like he spoke to Adam and Abraham and Moses when he told them what he wanted from them? Christians might laugh at the suggestion that God would be so open, familiar, even paternal with an average guy, but I don’t see why it is ridiculous, especially if he loves us as much as they claim he does.
Conversely, if he is just, he isn’t going to punish me for questioning orders I’ve gotten only from men claiming–without clear proof–to speak on his behalf.
I’m a father. I am extremely careful make my expectations absolutely clear to my kids. I’m careful to tell them exactly what I think they need to know and to do to be happy. I don’t leave them cryptic notes relayed to them through countless unknown intermediaries. I can’t make them choose what I want, but I still do everything in my power to make clear what I think they should choose. Why would an omnipotent father who loves us far more than I can love my kids do less? If he did do less, how could he expect us to meet his expectations?
If God wants to speak to me, personally, clearly, unambiguously, I’ll conform immediately. But he hasn’t so far, and I’m not holding my breath.
That’s true Robert, I think a lot of people take different parts of the bible as symbolism or truth depending on a lot of different factors.
Being able to take responsibility for what I believe and not others would be great, if I can just get past the OCD. Fingers crossed!
Thank you for your words:)
Thank you Porphyry, I’ve thought a bit about Pascal’s Wager too. I’m not sure how to feel about it in relation to the fears that I have thanks to Scrupulosity.
I think what you said makes a lot of sense, if God wants us to know certain things or follow him it would be no trouble for him to let us know, but he seems to prefer to stay hidden.
I don’t think God being open with a regular guy is strange either, and as you mentioned he did communicate one to one in the Old Testament days.
I really hope that if God is there he’s just too.
I think being a dad gives you a different perspective on things too, and being clear in your expectations is really important. It’s what all children need I think.
Thank you very much for your reply:)
I’m still a Christian but I would definitely agree that reading and engaging with resources such as Bart’s books or Alex O’ Connor’s videos whilst they certainly have increased my knowledge on the subject have also significantly lessed my sureness that Christianity is true whether for the better (I don’t think I’m as dogmatic as I used to be) or for the worse (I now have a plethsora of questions I can’t seem to find the answers to)
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
1 Guest(s)