The question is why you except or reject the claims of Christianity ? I find the topic of Christianity and other religious claims fascinating . Critical examination of the text, and all arguments for or against them is good thing to understand. The main reason I do not believe is because the claims are not credible. I am an atheist and any claims of miracles, god ,sin and the like seem too incredible for me to believe them. Just because people/text make claims that is not enough evidenced to except them. To me, even if the accounts were written by eyewitnesses the next day I will not believe them unless there is extraordinary evidence for them. I know there are different reasons why different people except or reject Christianity ( Bart cites The problem of suffering as one of his reasons) what is your reason ?
Jimmy said
The question is why you except or reject the claims of Christianity ? I find the topic of Christianity and other religious claims fascinating . Critical examination of the text, and all arguments for or against them is good thing to understand. The main reason I do not believe is because the claims are not credible. I am an atheist and any claims of miracles, god ,sin and the like seem too incredible for me to believe them. Just because people/text make claims that is not enough evidenced to except them. To me, even if the accounts were written by eyewitnesses the next day I will not believe them unless there is extraordinary evidence for them. I know there are different reasons why different people except or reject Christianity ( Bart cites The problem of suffering as one of his reasons) what is your reason ?
Jimmy, Thanks for an opportunity to say something I would like to share with all my fellow bloggers on CIA. I have chosen to believe in Jesus in spite of all I’ve learned here over the last few years because it seems a good way to live. Jesus called God Abba (my”papa in heaven”, one priest’s explanation for the word). Jesus said we are to love ourselves and others as ourselves. It sounds simple. It isn’t but just trying makes for a rich spiritual life.
For me there are a number of reasons, but one them is that we live on a tiny planet in an unspectacular solar system in an outer arm of a typical galaxy. There are thought to be 100 billion galaxies in the universe. I have a hard time believing a Supreme Being would care one wit about the horrible species we are.
Another is that as a society we laugh at ancient religions and what ancient people believed in. (But not our religion! Oh no! Our God is REAL!) People always need someone more powerful than them to put the blame on when something goes wrong and to thank when things go right. Believing in God is no different than what the Greeks or Persians or Romans or the Celtic tribes of Europe believed in. For Christians, God is a father figure who takes care of them when they’re good and punishes them when they’re bad.
Greg Matthews said
For me there are a number of reasons, but one them is that we live on a tiny planet in an unspectacular solar system in an outer arm of a typical galaxy. There are thought to be 100 billion galaxies in the universe. I have a hard time believing a Supreme Being would care one wit about the horrible species we are.Another is that as a society we laugh at ancient religions and what ancient people believed in. (But not our religion! Oh no! Our God is REAL!) People always need someone more powerful than them to put the blame on when something goes wrong and to thank when things go right. Believing in God is no different than what the Greeks or Persians or Romans or the Celtic tribes of Europe believed in. For Christians, God is a father figure who takes care of them when they’re good and punishes them when they’re bad.
“For Christians, God is a father….”
Not all believers think that way. Some of us simply want to live those scriptures that tell us to treat everyone as our brother, not judge, live simply so that others might live.
Judith said
Jimmy said
The question is why you except or reject the claims of Christianity ? I find the topic of Christianity and other religious claims fascinating . Critical examination of the text, and all arguments for or against them is good thing to understand. The main reason I do not believe is because the claims are not credible. I am an atheist and any claims of miracles, god ,sin and the like seem too incredible for me to believe them. Just because people/text make claims that is not enough evidenced to except them. To me, even if the accounts were written by eyewitnesses the next day I will not believe them unless there is extraordinary evidence for them. I know there are different reasons why different people except or reject Christianity ( Bart cites The problem of suffering as one of his reasons) what is your reason ?Jimmy, Thanks for an opportunity to say something I would like to share with all my fellow bloggers on CIA. I have chosen to believe in Jesus in spite of all I’ve learned here over the last few years because it seems a good way to live. Jesus called God Abba (my”papa in heaven”, one priest’s explanation for the word). Jesus said we are to love ourselves and others as ourselves. It sounds simple. It isn’t but just trying makes for a rich spiritual life.
Thank you for your response. I agree that to treat people like you would treat yourself is a good way to live. There are some good teachings in the bible (some horrible ones too! ). All the moral teachings in the bible are not unique to the bible. They can be found in lots of other religious and secular traditions. We should live by good teachings wherever we find them. To me, you do not have to believe in a god to be spiritual. Living in the present moment and meditation ( not the junk a lot of people are putting out there, but scientifically knowing how the brain functions) are a good way to be spiritual without believing in a higher power.
Jimmy
I know there are different reasons why different people except or reject Christianity ( Bart cites The problem of suffering as one of his reasons) what is your reason ?
Well I’m assuming that you really mean why we rejected Christianity (if we did) specifically and not just why we don’t believe in god. There is some overlap but these are not strictly identical. (Just ask a Muslim.)
I stopped identifying as a Christian after years of being a completely sincere believer when I honestly admitted to myself that I no longer believed that Jesus was god and that he had been raised from the dead. I realize that not all contemporary Christians follow this formulation but that was Paul the apostle’s view of what made you a Christian.
I stopped believing in Jesus because after years of thought and study I came to see that it was all a human construct, not supernatural.
Stephen said
JimmyI know there are different reasons why different people except or reject Christianity ( Bart cites The problem of suffering as one of his reasons) what is your reason ?
Well I’m assuming that you really mean why we rejected Christianity (if we did) specifically and not just why we don’t believe in god. There is some overlap but these are not strictly identical. (Just ask a Muslim.)
I stopped identifying as a Christian after years of being a completely sincere believer when I honestly admitted to myself that I no longer believed that Jesus was god and that he had been raised from the dead. I realize that not all contemporary Christians follow this formulation but that was Paul the apostle’s view of what made you a Christian.
I stopped believing in Jesus because after years of thought and study I came to see that it was all a human construct, not supernatural.
I was just stating why I reject the claims the bible make. By default, if I do not find evidence for some higher being who does miraculous acts in the physical world then a lot of stuff in the bible is false. All you are left with is some moral. some horrible teachings, and a small group of historical facts.
I have somewhat a similar experience that you had. I became a Christian in high school and tried to live it the best way I could. I got really serious about it a few years later by reading the bible every day and reading Christian apologetic and theology books. After spending thousands of dollars on books I came to the conclusion that it was simply not true and could not be defended.
Greg Matthews said
For me there are a number of reasons, but one them is that we live on a tiny planet in an unspectacular solar system in an outer arm of a typical galaxy. There are thought to be 100 billion galaxies in the universe. I have a hard time believing a Supreme Being would care one wit about the horrible species we are.Another is that as a society we laugh at ancient religions and what ancient people believed in. (But not our religion! Oh no! Our God is REAL!) People always need someone more powerful than them to put the blame on when something goes wrong and to thank when things go right. Believing in God is no different than what the Greeks or Persians or Romans or the Celtic tribes of Europe believed in. For Christians, God is a father figure who takes care of them when they’re good and punishes them when they’re bad.
I agree with what you said. People for the most part believe in the religion that they were born into and grew up in, simple as that. Where you were born and when you were born is a major factor.
I got really serious about it a few years later by reading the bible every day and reading Christian apologetic and theology books. After spending thousands of dollars on books I came to the conclusion that it was simply not true and could not be defended.
It sounds funny but it’s really not but I think studying the Bible has created more atheists than Richard Dawkins could ever hope to in his wildest dreams. Looking back it’s hard to see how I could have ever believed in the first place but when everyone you trust is telling you something you have no basis for comparison. Anyway, I grew and the oak must not despise the acorn.
Judith said
Greg Matthews said
For me there are a number of reasons, but one them is that we live on a tiny planet in an unspectacular solar system in an outer arm of a typical galaxy. There are thought to be 100 billion galaxies in the universe. I have a hard time believing a Supreme Being would care one wit about the horrible species we are.Another is that as a society we laugh at ancient religions and what ancient people believed in. (But not our religion! Oh no! Our God is REAL!) People always need someone more powerful than them to put the blame on when something goes wrong and to thank when things go right. Believing in God is no different than what the Greeks or Persians or Romans or the Celtic tribes of Europe believed in. For Christians, God is a father figure who takes care of them when they’re good and punishes them when they’re bad.
“For Christians, God is a father….”
Not all believers think that way. Some of us simply want to live those scriptures that tell us to treat everyone as our brother, not judge, live simply so that others might live.
It really bothers me when Christians say this. You’re saying that you need this book to tell you how to behave. I read something once that said many Christians stay Christian because they think there’s some spirit in the sky watching their every minute move ready to punish them when they do something wrong: in other words, they’re only good because they think they’re being watched. There has been study after study showing that even infants are inherently good and know right from wrong. We’re born knowing knowing right from wrong. Humans LEARN how to be bad. Even most mammals know right from wrong.
Most atheists I know are some of the most inherently good and nice people I’ve ever met. I’ve known some wonderful Christians too, but there are far too many of those who live on the highway to hell 6 days a week and like a meek lover of God for 2 hours a week. Studies show that a tiny, tiny fraction of federal prison populations identify as atheist (less than 1%). To me that’s interesting.
Judith said
Greg, Did you read William Golding’s Lord of the Flies? And do you have children? I reared two sons. Without guidance and left on their own, it’s a wonder how that would have worked out.
Exactly, humans learn to be bad, most directly from the parents, but indirectly from all sorts of outlets like TV, friends, video games, teachers, etc. “Lord of the Flies” is a work of fiction. If it were real then any evil inherent in those boys was learned before they got to that island.
Are you saying that before Jesus came along that it was impossible for humans to be “good”? That it’s only Jesus, or the Bible in general, that has the correct moral compass for the world? That no other society is capable of being “good” without knowing or having known about the teachings of Jesus?
Stephen said
I got really serious about it a few years later by reading the bible every day and reading Christian apologetic and theology books. After spending thousands of dollars on books I came to the conclusion that it was simply not true and could not be defended.It sounds funny but it’s really not but I think studying the Bible has created more atheists than Richard Dawkins could ever hope to in his wildest dreams. Looking back it’s hard to see how I could have ever believed in the first place but when everyone you trust is telling you something you have no basis for comparison. Anyway, I grew and the oak must not despise the acorn.
I would have to credit Christian apologists with sowing the first seeds of my own disbelief. Fortunately, I didn’t spend any money on their books but when the internet came along and I had too much time on my hands I started doing some reading. Listening to a debate in which an apologist tried to argue that all those animals really could have fit on the ark I started thinking that this guy is really nuts. Likewise with young earth creationists. Then Biblical inerrantists.
Like Bart, I tried hanging on to what was left of my faith for a while but eventually I became convinced that the Bible was not a divine revelation at all but purely of human origin and saw no reason to continue claiming to be a Christian.
One thing that really sapped away my Christianity was studying the processes of evolution. How can you square the loving Abba of the New Testament with the rapacious unforgiving maw of the evolutionary process? The god of evolution would be a monster. I have never understood how someone could claim that the god of the New Testament would use evolution as his creative process. How could you say that unless you knew nothing of how evolution really works? The waste. The suffering.
And then to find out that as a species we owe our dominance of this planet to an object that impacted Yucatan 65 million years ago and caused a mass extinction that opened up an ecosystem allowing our prehuman ancestors to flourish. The celestial version of a traffic accident.
I ask no one to follow me and I’m not going to force my beliefs on anyone else but I just can’t believe in the Christian god anymore.
For whoever would like a book for a general audience ( like Bart’s trade books) who do not have degrees in cosmology, particle physics, geology, astrophysics, biology, paleontology or meteoritics and would like to know about what science currently knows about the universe and how we got here Lisa Randall’s book ” Dark Matter and Dinosaurs : the astounding interconnectedness of the universe” is a good place to start. Check her out on youtube or amazon.
Greg Matthews said
For me there are a number of reasons, but one them is that we live on a tiny planet in an unspectacular solar system in an outer arm of a typical galaxy. There are thought to be 100 billion galaxies in the universe. I have a hard time believing a Supreme Being would care one wit about the horrible species we are.Another is that as a society we laugh at ancient religions and what ancient people believed in. (But not our religion! Oh no! Our God is REAL!) People always need someone more powerful than them to put the blame on when something goes wrong and to thank when things go right. Believing in God is no different than what the Greeks or Persians or Romans or the Celtic tribes of Europe believed in. For Christians, God is a father figure who takes care of them when they’re good and punishes them when they’re bad.
I agree. I was raised Roman Catholic and then became a born again Christian, like Dr. Ehrman, in my teens. By the time I was thirty I still sort of believed but had largely abandoned reading the Bible and was no longer completely sure God existed. At forty I wanted to return to some form of Christianity but not the fundamentalist persuasion. I was looking for something more liberal, and to make a long story short, after studying the origins of the Bible and Christianity and religion in general I became an atheist. I read the Bible and study biblical scholarship now from a secular/atheist position because I find it very interesting. For me the adage, “The only people who believe the Bible are the ones who haven’t read it.” rings true. I would add: All of I and not just your favorite passages.
I was always scientifically minded and like seeking answers to the big questions of life. When I was a Christian this often caused an intellectual difficulty for me. I could see that there were many contradictions in the Bible on not only a range of biblical topics but in other areas of life/existence as well. I finally after intense study and research more or less came to your conclusion.
Stephen said
I got really serious about it a few years later by reading the bible every day and reading Christian apologetic and theology books. After spending thousands of dollars on books I came to the conclusion that it was simply not true and could not be defended.It sounds funny but it’s really not but I think studying the Bible has created more atheists than Richard Dawkins could ever hope to in his wildest dreams. Looking back it’s hard to see how I could have ever believed in the first place but when everyone you trust is telling you something you have no basis for comparison. Anyway, I grew and the oak must not despise the acorn.
Studying the Bible intensely lead to my becoming an atheist. I also wondered about how I could have believed its claims so fervently when I was younger but the lack of exposure to alternate (liberal theology and atheist arguments) was certainly a big part of it. I would also throw life experience in to the mix as well. I know many people who were raised in a nominally Christian household who have never spent any serious time reading the bible or going to church who are aghast when I tell them I don’t believe in God. They don’t want to hear my reasons and seem to only believe in God because they fear death or some kind of punishment in this life or some bad turn of luck. But when I look at their lives (I know it’s judgmental) I don’t see them living any differently than someone who doesn’t believe. And I have come to see that those who don’t believe in the Bible are the ones who have really studied it and can expound on its contents far, far better than those who profess a belief in the Christian God but know very little about it other than what they have heard quoted in church, in the media or from what someone else has said.
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