The first hour of the video is not controversial by any stretch of the imagination.
It is interesting to listen to two scholars have a nice conversation.
I have to pick up at 1:03.22 of 3:44.13.
So, Danny Jones found a scholar who can have a nice conversation with Ammon Hillman.
Luke Gorton specializes in ancient Mediterranean religions, languages, and cultures. His research focuses on cross-cultural encounters between various linguistic and ethnic groups of the ancient Mediterranean, including Greeks, Romans, Jews, and Christians.
YouTube Channel: Danny Jones
Video: Explosive Bible Debate: Exiled Language Expert vs Ancient Religion PhD | Ammon Hillman & Luke Gorton
(There is no explosion or Bible Debate in the first hour. – Steefen
At about 1:01, there is mention that the Greeks had respect for the Egyptians and the Egyptians grew a larger variety of drugs than the Greeks, due to climate advantages.
Also, there was mention of Nicander of Colophon who was, in the second century BCE, a priest of Apollo.)
Yes, we know Ammon Hillman is very knowledgeable about Galen. When we note Nicander, we have to say, he, also, knew of poisons and antidotes.
Nicander of Colophon (2nd century BCE) was a notable Greek poet, physician, and grammarian who served as the hereditary priest of Apollo at the sanctuary in Claros, near Colophon, inheriting the position from his family.
He’s famous for his didactic poems, ** you do not have permission to see this link ** (on poisons and antidotes).
His writings, including references to his priestly role and service to the Attalid kings, reveal his deep connection to Apollo’s oracle.
Robert
Keep listening.
Steefen
Well, of course, if you get into the Greater Questions text … you can expect …
= = = =
Should Ammon’s dean have made him remove the use of drugs from his dissertation because it was unbecoming, Ancient Romans didn’t do that?
My answer is no. People knew how to drug each other for medicinal purposes and for stress and for pleasure.
Learn something, Steefen section:
If an emperor:
- Drank too much → they said so
- Ate too much → they said so
- Was a sexaholic → they said so
- Was cruel or mad → they said so
But drug dependence had no moral language the way it does for us.
So instead of:
“He abused opium”
You get:
- “He was ill”
- “He required constant physicians”
- “He slept excessively”
- “He suffered strange humors”
- “He lost restraint”
That’s frustrating — but it’s how ancient texts work.
1. “Did Romans use drugs?”
Yes. Absolutely.
- Opium (poppy latex)
- Mandragora (mandrake)
- Hyoscyamus (henbane)
- Cannabis (rare, mostly medicinal)
- Alcohol constantly
Steefen:
So, Ammon is telling it like it was without re-wording reality.
Second, “drug dependence had no moral language? ! ! ! ” I’m not buying that because Socrates said something like, “Everything in moderation.”
Learn something, Steefen section:
- Historians weren’t tracking pharmacological dependence
- They tracked moral spectacle and political failure
Steefen:
Splitting straws.
Stopping at 1:44.37 for now.
With respect to the removal of a chapter of Ammon’s dissertation, we’ve only heard his side of the story, and he has not exactly been honest about other aspects of his controversial past. It would be nice to hear other perspectives on why the chapter was deemed unacceptable.
** you do not have permission to see this link ** are some other perspectives.
when he tries to force this knowledge into areas where he has zero expertise, he comes up with totally whacko ideas.
Where to even begin?
One such idea (1:59:21) seems to be that the Hebrew language was invented in Alexandria in the 2nd or 3rd century B.C.
Ammon dismisses clear, incontrovertible evidence of its existence prior to that time.
Luke’s point is dead on (2:11:07):
“I just don’t think you’re willing to look at the evidence. Ammon, you don’t like the evidence, and so you’re discounting it. That’s all that’s happening here.”
Robert said
Here Brian Joseph describes his own biographical history with reference to linguistics. Sharing because I think BJH Bruce and Jill will especially relate, but also because it is comforting to see that even such an accomplished linguist can still make an occasional grammatical error! Most likely a change in thought while writing missed in proof-reading.
I’ve enjoyed the read — thanks, Robert!
Comment 10
I thought maybe the dean may have been following how contemporary historians wrote about historical figures and the dean wanted Ammon to do the same and keep quiet about drug use although there was drug use in Ancient Roman society.
One does not find drug use as a moral issue in all of the Loeb Classics I had to read–not even with Caligula or Olympians.
“He required constant physicians” [supplying opium].
Wait, what? Drug use in the ancient world? Who knew?
Well only scholars who’ve been writing about this for decades!
Hilman should know about ** you do not have permission to see this link ** by John Scarborough since it’s a classic in his own friggin’ field. (The publication now available was issued in 2024 but it is a collection of research that goes back to the 1970s.)
And what about the work of R. Gordon Wasson? See ** you do not have permission to see this link **. From the 50s and 60s respectively.
And ** you do not have permission to see this link **by Mark D. Merlin from the 1970s.
And that’s just some of the 20th century scholarly stuff. What about ** you do not have permission to see this link ** by Baron Ernst von Bibra from the 1850s? Von Bibra is considered the “father” of the field of ethnobotany.
Merely mentioning ancient drug use cannot have been controversial. That’s old hat.
I detest pseudo-scholars who come along and pretend they are the first to discover some “secret” that no one knows… except anyone who has any knowledge of the field! But then again relying on the ignorance of the public is a sure thing.
I detest pseudo-scholars who come along and pretend they are the first to discover some “secret” that no one knows… except anyone who has any knowledge of the field! But then again relying on the ignorance of the public is a sure thing.
Yes, the secret is part of the allure.
His followers are privileged, as they’ve not been bamboozled like the rest of us.
“Advertising signs they con
You into thinking you’re the one
That can do what’s never been done
That can win what’s never been won.”
– Dylan, It’s Alright, Ma (I’m only Bleeding)
BJH1960 said
A wonderful read, Robert. Thanks.
I didn’t know he had Sydney Lamb as a teacher! When I was an undergraduate, my profs had me read a lot of Lamb. I will say I didn’t find him particularly easy to understand.
I’m curious BJH. Which books of Lamb’s did you read? I tried picking up a Chomsky book, once, and almost immediately set it down again.
Was it pages from book(s) or entire books?
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