Richard Carrier

This archangel Jesus from Zechariah Chapter 6:

Robert
But there is no archangel Jesus in Zechariah 6. Nor does Philo use the name Jesus when quoting one line from Zechariah 6. Carrier needs to assume that Philo misread Zechariah and imagine that Philo might have been wrongly thinking of Joshua the high priest rather than Zerubbabel when speaking of “a man whose name is the East” (Zech 6,12).

Steefen, Argumentation Specialist
Carrier may have taken a wrong turn, but I say, as Hebrews speaks of Jesus as the cosmic high priest and Philo of Alexandria speaks of the cosmic/divine high priest who is God’s son (On Dreams, That They Are God-Sent), Zechariah 6:11 says the high priest Joshua should place the crown on the head of Zerubbabel.

Joshua (in Hebrew, Yeshua) means 1) salvation of the Lord, Yahweh saves, deliver, rescues which is applied to Jesus, the Greek form of Yeshua.

Zechariah speaks of the king (Zerubbabel) rebuilding the Temple, headed by the high priest (Joshua/Yeshua/Jesus). Zadok was the high priest of Solomon’s Temple. Joshua was the high priest of the second Temple. As Philo was using Zechariah’s vision of the time period of the rebuilding of the second temple, the high priest’s name in heaven would match the high priest’s name on earth. Paul, the author/s of the Ascension of Isaiah, and the author/s of Hebrews also may be referring to Philo’s reference to Joshua/Yeshua/Jesus in the Book of Zechariah.

Robert said

Steefen said

… Paul, the author/s of the Ascension of Isaiah, and the author/s of Hebrews also may be referring to Philo’s reference to Joshua/Yeshua/Jesus in the Book of Zechariah.

But, once again, Philo does not make reference to Joshua/Yeshua/Jesus in the Book of Zechariah. He makes reference to the man named ‘rising/east’ (ἀνατολή ‘anatole), which translates ‘shoot’ (צֶמַח tsemachx) and refers to the ruler, not to the high priest. Carrier has to assume that Philo must have misread Zechariah.

  

Philo makes reference to Zechariah 6: 12, the shoot who is the king who will build the temple. Who is this king’s high priest? Answer: Joshua/Yeshua/Jesus.
You are in error. No misreading is required to determine who the high priest for the new temple is, Robert. You are interacting with me, not Richard Carrier.

Philo refers to the high priest elsewhere:

For there are, as it seems, two temples belonging to God; one being this world, in which the high priest is the divine word, his own firstborn son. The other is the rational soul…

Philo of Alexandria. On Dreams, That They Are God-Sent. 1.215.
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Philo does not refer to the high priest here.
Although Philo has established that the Logos/God’s Son is the cosmic high priest elsewhere, here, he uses hearsay to hypothetically set up/test the king as the Logos/God’s Son.

I have also heard of one of the companions of Moses having uttered such a speech as this: “Behold, a man whose name is the East!” {Zechariah 6: 12} A very novel appellation indeed, if you consider it as spoken of a man who is compounded of body and soul; but

if

you look upon it as applied to that incorporeal being who in no respect differs from the divine image, you will then agree that the name of the east has been given to him with great felicity.

For the Father of the universe has caused him to spring up as the eldest son, whom, in another passage, he calls the firstborn; and he who is thus born, imitating the ways of his father, has formed such and such species, looking to his archetypal patterns.

And even if there be not as yet anyone who is worthy to be called a son of God, nevertheless let him labour earnestly to be adorned according to his first-born word, the eldest of his angels, as the great archangel of many names; for he is called, the authority, and the name of God, and the Word, and man according to God’s image, and he who sees Israel.

For which reason I was induced a little while ago to praise the principles of those who said, “We are all one man’s Sons.” For even if we are not yet suitable to be called the sons of God, still we may deserve to be called the children of his eternal image, of his most sacred word; for the image of God is his most ancient word.

Steefen, Argumentation Specialist
but do not use hearsay to hypothetically join king to high priest although in reality there will be peaceful counsel between king and high priest (Zech. 6: 13).

Actually, the confusion comes from Zechariah 6: 13 where the king will be a priest (thank God, he didn’t say, the king will be the high priest).

13Yes, He will build the temple of the LORD; He will be clothed in splendor and will sit on His throne and rule. And He will be a priest on His throne, and there will be peaceful counsel between the two.’…

Philo of Alexandria. On the Confusion of Tongues / A Treatise on the Confusion of Languages. 62-63 and 146-147.
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