YouTube Channel: History Valley
Video: The Gospel of John and the Bar Kokhba Revolt – Dr. Samuel Zinner, 26:00 – 30:00
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Professor S. Zinner
Re: Sermon on the Mount
Matthew’s outlook is Pauline.
Problem: Sermon on the Mount passages are anti-Pauline
– warning against wolves
– Jesus condemns anyone who takes away from the Torah or teaches one does not have to follow the Torah, he will be least in the Kingdom of God.
These two points seem to be anti-Pauline.
Furthermore, “beware of wolves coming in sheep’s clothing,” seems to be a polemic against Paul.
Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin.
In Genesis, Benjamin was called the wolf.
So, Jesus is supposedly giving a prophecy against Paul–a wolf who comes in sheep’s clothing who disparages the Torah.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
There IS conflict in the New Testament between the Pauline letters and the orthodoxy of the gospels.
Dr. Markus Vinzent ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Gospel of John has an anti-Marcionite Prologue.
Gospel of John is half way between Marcion and the Synoptics.
Dr. Zinner
Anecdote: a scholar wrote Paul’s message won out over James’ message because Paul’s theology was more profound.
Zinner disagrees because there were more Gentiles than Jews–by sheer numbers, Paul’s message won out.
If Jesus taught in Tiberias, Sepphoris, other places in Galilee, Greek would have been his language of teaching.
p/u at 27:00

Steefen said
Problem: Sermon on the Mount passages are anti-Pauline
– Jesus condemns anyone who takes away from the Torah or teaches one does not have to follow the Torah, he will be least in the Kingdom of God.
He doesn’t.
He condemns anyone who takes away from the “these” commandments. That is, those commandments he is about to give in the sermon on the mount.
Having given his commandments in chapters 5, 6, 7 he says in Matthew 7:24-26
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.”
Testimonium Flavianum Discussion
28:35 –
Dr. Zinner
The whole of the TF is authentic.
There is Christian tampering in the Slavonic Josephus.
There is no Slavonic Antiquities.
“if you can call him human” is a Greek idiom that simply means Jesus was extra-ordinary
Jesus ben Ananus and Jesus of the gospels
34:30 – finally Robert Price speaks. // Theodore J. Weeden did a comparison of the two:
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Then we have Carrier, Weeden, and Evans
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(Googled Theodore J. Weeden and Jesus and Jesus ben Ananus)

Steefen said
Another Video with Professor Samuel ZinnerYouTube Channel: History Valley
“Redating the Four Gospels – Dr. Vinzent, Dr. Price, Dr. Zinner, and James Valliant
From 41:50 – “the concept of an idol desecrating the temple fits only in the 40s or hadrian – it doesn’t fit 70 (AD)”
This is correct.
But the conclusion of the panel that therefore the gospels fit better to Hadrian’s actions in the 130s is incorrect. By then christians didnt’t care about the temple.
The correct conclusion is that it fits caligula’s actions in the 40s.
Testimonium Flavianum Discussion
28:35 – 38:00
Dr. Zinner
The whole of the TF is authentic.
There is Christian tampering in the Slavonic Josephus.
There is no Slavonic Antiquities.
“if you can call him human” is a Greek idiom that simply means Jesus was extra-ordinary
Jesus ben Ananus and Jesus of the Passion narratives of the gospels
34:30 – finally Robert Price speaks. // Theodore J. Weeden did a comparison of the two:
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Then we have Carrier, Weeden, and Evans
** you do not have permission to see this link **
(Googled Theodore J. Weeden and Jesus and Jesus ben Ananus)
brenmcg
From 41:50 – “the concept of an idol desecrating the temple fits only in the 40s or hadrian – it doesn’t fit 70 (AD)”
This is correct.
But the conclusion of the panel that therefore the gospels fit better to Hadrian’s actions in the 130s is incorrect. By then christians didnt’t care about the temple.
The correct conclusion is that it fits caligula’s actions in the 40s.
Steefen
What is the citation for the mention in the Works of Josephus?
Wikipedia’s entry for Abomination of Desolation
In 63 BCE, the Romans captured Jerusalem and Judea became an outpost of the Roman Empire, but in 66 CE the Jews rose in revolt against the Romans as their ancestors had once done against Antiochus.[20] The resulting First Jewish–Roman War ended in 70 CE when the legions of the Roman general Titus surrounded and eventually captured Jerusalem;[21] the city and the temple were razed to the ground, and the only habitation on the site until the first third of the next century was a Roman military camp.[22] It was against this background that the gospels were written, Mark around 70 AD and Matthew and Luke around 80–85.[23][24] It is almost certain that none of the authors were eyewitnesses to the life of Jesus,[25] and Mark was the source used by the authors of Matthew and Luke for their “abomination of desolation” passages.[26]
Chapter 13 of Mark’s gospel is a speech of Jesus concerning the return of the Son of Man and the advent of the Kingdom of God, which will be signaled by the appearance of the “abomination of desolation”.[3] It begins with Jesus in the temple informing his disciples that “not one stone here will be left on another, all will be thrown down”; the disciples ask when this will happen, and in Mark 13:14 Jesus tells them: “[W]hen you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains” (Mark 13:14). Mark’s terminology is drawn from Daniel, but he places the fulfilment of the prophecy in his own day,[27] underlining this in Mark 13:30 by stating that “this generation will not pass away before all these things take place.”[28] While Daniel’s “abomination” was probably a pagan altar or sacrifice, Mark uses a masculine participle for “standing”, indicating a concrete historical person: several candidates have been suggested, but the most likely is Titus.[29][30][Notes 2]
The majority of scholars believe that Mark was the source used by the authors of Matthew and Luke for their “abomination of desolation” passages.[26] Matthew 24:15–16 follows Mark 13:14 closely: “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains”; but unlike Mark, Matthew uses a neutral participle instead of a masculine one, and explicitly identifies Daniel as his prophetic source.[4] Luke 21:20–21 drops the “abomination” entirely: “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it.”[31] In all three it is likely that the authors had in mind a future eschatological (i.e., end-time) event, and perhaps the activities of some antichrist.[31]
Dr. Markus Vinzent
There are no external mentions of the gospels in the first century.
Steefen
Don’t you have Paul speaking of other gospels.
Don’t you have Luke speaking of other gospels and his gospel is going to be better?
Domitilla and Clement had no gospels?
The content of the gospels are somewhat within Enoch I and Enoch II?

Steefen said
The majority of scholars believe that Mark was the source used by the authors of Matthew and Luke for their “abomination of desolation” passages.
The majority of scholars are incorrect.
Also the wikipedia entry you quote contradicts the video you posted.
The panel on the video are correct when they say the “abomination that causes desolation” does not fit the events of 70.
But they are incorrect in their conclusion that the gospels accounts are based therefore on the events of the 130s.
They are in fact based on the events of the 40s.
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