Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
Jesus Doesn't Say He's Returning. Paul Says He's Returning. Why?
Avatar
Stephen
4490 Posts
(Offline)
21
June 20, 2020 - 10:55 am

From  David  Alter’s  notes  on  his  translation  of  Isaiah 53:

Famously  these  words  and  what  follows were  embraced  by  Christian  interpreters  from  the  formative  period  of  Christianity  onward as  a  prophecy  of  the  Passion  narrative and  the  Crucifixion.   The  emphasis  on  the  Servant’s  bearing  of  the  sins  of  the  people  and  becoming  a  kind  of  sacrificial  lamb  seems  especially  relevant  to  the  idea  of  Christ’s  dying  for  the  sins  of  humankind.  Illness,  however, is  not  part  of  the  story  of  Jesus.    Virtually  no  serious  scholars  today  see  this  a  prediction  of  the  Passion,  but  it  certainly  provided  a  theological  template  for  interpreting  the  death  of  Jesus. 

Debate  persists  about  the  identity  of  the  Servant.  A  recurrent  Jewish  view  sees  him  as  a  representation  of  collective  Israel,  but  the  details  of  the  passage  argue  for  the  biography  of  an  individual,  and  already  in  the  Middle  Ages  Abraham  ibn  Ezra  proposed  that  the  Servant  was  the  prophet  himself.   The  speaker  then,  would  be  one  of  the  prophet’s  disciples,  as  Blenkinsopp  suggests,  eulogizing  him  after  his  death  (see  verse  8)  on  behalf  of  himself   but  also  a  group  of  disciples  (the  “we”  that  is  invoked  here).                                                        

 

Poohbear you  are  certainly  free  to  disagree  with  Alter  but  when  you  accuse  him  of  bamboozling  people  you  just  make  yourself  look  foolish. 

Avatar
Stephen
4490 Posts
(Offline)
22
June 22, 2020 - 2:34 pm

Whoops that’s** you do not have permission to see this link **Alter of course.

Avatar
LukaPNW

22 Posts
(Offline)
23
August 4, 2020 - 7:43 pm

The historical Jesus didn’t know he was going to die. You can’t claim to be coming back if you’re sure you’ll never leave. Jesus was sure that God was going to do something big within his lifetime. Namely, crush the great powers of the world(Rome/Persia), punish the wicked and corrupt and make him King of the new Earthly Kingdom of God(return to paradise). For Paul, Jesus is still King, so he will still have to come back when the paradise is restored on Earth.  

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7641
Stephen: 4490
Porphyry: 1834
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1323
brenmcg: 1184
BJH1960: 1149
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
ntcartwright
Jltomsik
JackIII
jim2day
mgrandy64
jeffweng
Dmanny1204
Bercan
abreupedro
muk977
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2597
Posts: 45769

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 65742
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online: Steefen, jim2day
Guest(s) 64
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)