Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
Paul and Satan
Avatar
gvtsvt65

1 Posts
(Offline)
1
April 8, 2019 - 8:10 am

In 2 Cor 12:7 (NRSV) I read: “….Therefore, to keep me from being too elated, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me, to keep me from being too elated.” My question is this: From where did Paul derive this Satan figure? As Paul was a Jew, my understanding is that Jews had not yet developed this malevolent Satan who torments people in the 50s CE. It seems that it is the gospels who really advanced the idea of the devil and the concept of hell. Of course the gospels had not yet been written. I know the apocryphal 1 Enoch (200 BCE) has a promiscuous angelic figure(s) (from Gen 5), but he doesn’t seem to be known as “evil” at this time. Could Paul have had such a developed idea of a malicious Satan at this early stage?

Thanx for your help – Garry

Avatar
fefferdan

25 Posts
(Offline)
2
April 13, 2019 - 12:27 pm

The Book of Job features Satan [ha-satan] as an angel [ben-elohim] who tormented Job with God’s OK. He’s not fallen in this case, however. Similarly the Book of Zechariah says

“Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?” [ch. 3]

I think this is the first time Satan is presented as an enemy of God. More ambiguous is the The Book of Chronicles [1 chron 21] saying it was Satan who tempted David to conduct a census of Israel, although the Book of Kings says it was God. You can add Jubilees and others to the list of apocryphal writings in which Satan is featured. 

I’d say the general answer to you question is that the Jews began thinking of a Satan who tempts man and opposes God during the Babylonian exile as a result of their exposure to Zoroastrianism. By the time of Jesus there must have been plenty of discussions among the rabbis about Satan and his relationship to the human tendency toward evil [the Yetzer ha-ra]. Certainly there is evidence of this in the early Talmudic period. So it’s quite likely, almost certain, that Paul would have been aware of these ideas – and that he wouldn’t feel the need to explain them more than he did in the passage you cite.

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7640
Stephen: 4489
Porphyry: 1834
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1323
brenmcg: 1184
BJH1960: 1149
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
ntcartwright
Jltomsik
JackIII
jim2day
mgrandy64
jeffweng
Dmanny1204
Bercan
abreupedro
muk977
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2597
Posts: 45763

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 65742
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online: Steefen, Tjalling
Guest(s) 74
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)