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Paul & ‘Pleroma’
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Hngerhman

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January 23, 2020 - 2:28 pm

Has anyone seen (or done) any good work around Paul and his usage of the term ‘pleroma’?

 
Hngerhman  January 12, 2020

Dr Ehrman –
 
In Romans, Paul appears to have believed that, via some mystery that God would reveal at a later date before the end, ‘all Israel’ (not just the then-current ‘remnant’) would be brought in.

In ** you do not have permission to see this link **, Paul refers to this set (all Israel) by employing the term ‘pleroma’.
 
Thus it would seem, in the end: Remnant + The Rest = Pleroma = All

The usage of ‘pleroma’ in ** you do not have permission to see this link ** seems suggestive of a sense of “all” (totality) as well.
 
Question: If Paul (often?) uses ‘pleroma’ in a way that seemingly maps onto *all* (of Israel, of the earth), why then should we not think (on linguistic grounds) he means *all* Gentiles in ** you do not have permission to see this link **?

Thanks much in advance – I don’t know how to adjudicate this, not least because I utterly lack the linguistic and textual chops…
 
Cheers!
 
** you do not have permission to see this link **  January 13, 2020

Maybe he does!

** you do not have permission to see this link **

Dr Fredricksen’s Paul put me on this path…

 

Thanks in advance for the conversation!

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godspell

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January 23, 2020 - 4:09 pm

This is quite literally a topic I had never considered, nor was I familiar with the word ‘pleroma’, which sounds uncomfortably like something your dermatologist would inform you about with a grave expression on his/her face. 

However, I would point out that it’s widely believed among scholars that Ephesians was not written by Paul, and there’s some doubt about Colossians as well.  As I recall, Bart doesn’t believe Paul wrote either of them. 

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Hngerhman

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January 23, 2020 - 4:13 pm

“We have an ointment for your pleroma…”

Thanks much, yes, I’m intending to limit instances to the 7 undisputed Pauline letters. Which seem to suggest “all”.

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godspell

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January 23, 2020 - 4:28 pm

When I googled about, I found references to those disputed epistles, which is why I brought them up.   All the epistles contain pleromas?  Maybe they were out in the sun too much? 

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Hngerhman

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January 23, 2020 - 4:37 pm

The indiscretions of youth… 

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Hngerhman

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January 24, 2020 - 2:53 pm

In case helpful, there are 6 instances of ‘pleroma’ in the undisputed Pauline corpus – 4 in Romans, and 1 each in 1 Corinthians and Galatians.

  1. Romans 11:12
  2. Romans 11:25
  3. Romans 13:10
  4. Romans 15:29
  5. 1 Corinthians 10:26
  6. Galatians 4:4
 
“Now if their stumbling means riches for the world, and if their defeat means riches for Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:12‬ ‭NRSV‬‬
** you do not have permission to see this link **
 
“So that you may not claim to be wiser than you are, brothers and sisters, I want you to understand this mystery: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:25‬ ‭NRSV‬‬
** you do not have permission to see this link **
 
“Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:10‬ ‭NRSV‬‬
** you do not have permission to see this link **
 
“and I know that when I come to you, I will come in the fullness of the blessing of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:29‬ ‭NRSV‬‬
** you do not have permission to see this link **
 
“for “the earth and its fullness are the Lord’s.””
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:26‬ ‭NRSV‬‬
** you do not have permission to see this link **
 
“But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭NRSV‬‬
** you do not have permission to see this link **
 
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godspell

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January 24, 2020 - 4:30 pm

A veritable plethora of pleromas. 

Granting that something is always lost in translation, I don’t see any particular thematic consistency in the way the word is used by Paul. 

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Hngerhman

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January 24, 2020 - 5:16 pm

Agree, it’s tricky – especially since (to your point) doing it from the standpoint of English is all I’m currently equipped to do.

Since Romans 11:25 is being tagged as the dependent variable herein, the question seems to be: how is it used in the other 5 independent variable instances, and what do they suggest?

Here’s my tentative cut at it:

Clearly All = 2

– Romans 11:12 = all/completion (the count is “all”)

– 1 Corinthians 10:26 = all/everything (the count is “all”)

Probably All = 1

– Romans 13:10 = completion/whole/all (probably but not slam dunk Paul means “all” of the Law)

Ambiguous yet Consistent with All = 1

– Romans 15:29 = all works, but also filled with and in fulfillment

Ambiguous = 1

– Galatians 4:4 = more like filled up (like the bottom of an hour glass)

Depending on how one wants to tally that, 40%-80% of usage is suggestive of “all”.

Where the range of the modified noun is finite or countable (at least countable in the Cantorian sense), the usage is suggestive of “all”. But where you loosen the countability of the noun (time = continuing continuum, blessing = amorphous noun in terms of quantity), the usage is less clearly suggestive of “all”.

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Hngerhman

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January 24, 2020 - 5:23 pm

And, oh yes, el Godspell, you have a plethora.

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godspell

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January 24, 2020 - 7:57 pm

I would hesitantly suggest Paul was using the word the way anyone fluent in Greek then would use it–but because of his influence on later generations of Christians (including Gnostics), it was seized upon and turned into a religious term.  

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Hngerhman

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January 24, 2020 - 11:28 pm

Cheers. Digging through this, without the linguistic skills, is perhaps a fool’s errand – but alas, I’ve embarked on many of those. I’m trying, and maybe not succeeding, to avoid the gnostic use of the term, and stick with extracting Paul’s meaning (from inside his own corpus, not outside). To date I’ve only found work on the matter that is so theologically tinged that it’s impossible (for me at least) to tease apart the lexical from the apologetic.

What I’m groping at is: Does “pleroma of the nations”, for Paul, mean a more expansive quantifier of “all Gentiles”, or a more limited quantifier of “the full relevant set of Gentiles (which may be less than all of them)”? The latter is what most theological arguments help themselves to, the former seems the simplest linguistic argument. Coming from someone who knows little more Greek than “souvlaki”…

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godspell

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January 25, 2020 - 6:29 am

Well, you could always ask for translation help at the nearest diner……..

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Hngerhman

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January 25, 2020 - 3:45 pm

The eggs and coffee quelled the pleroma of my hangover.

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