It seems obvious to me that Jesus did not see himself as a God, nor as the founder of a new world religion. Rather, he saw himself as the Jewish Messiah. Also, it was never his intent to include the Gentiles. His life’s mission was to prepare the Jews for the coming Kingdom of God, and to free them from the Roman occupation of Palestine. Even Pontius Pilate and the Roman guards jokingly referred to him as the “King of the Jews.”
When Jesus died, the apostles did exactly what they had been instructed to do. They went out into the world and preached his message to the Jews. If Jesus had wanted an “Apostle of the Gentiles,” he would have chosen one while he was alive and instructed him to preach to the Gentiles. However, Jesus believed in the covenant, which declared that the Jews were God’s chosen ones. Why would he wait until years after his death, and then choose someone to go out and preach to those who were not God’s chosen ones. Or, if that was his intent, why didn’t he tell his apostles that another apostle would arrive in a few years to assume that role.
So, several years after Jesus’ death, along comes this traveling salesman who had never met Jesus, but proceeds to inform the apostles that he had a vision, and that he was chosen by Jesus to be one of his apostles. Oh, and by the way, he wants me to preach to the Gentiles as well.
Well, the bottom line is that Jesus and his chosen apostles failed in their effort to convince the Jewish people that he was their Messiah. Instead, the tent salesman managed to create a world religion made up of Gentiles, who proclaimed Jesus, the Jew, as their God and savior.
Christianity is not so much about the teachings of Jesus, as it is about the teachings of the “Apostle of the Gentiles.” Remember, it was Paul who invited the Gentiles to join the Christian religion. But the Christ of Christianity did not invite the Gentiles to follow him unless, of course, they chose to became a Jew. What we call Christianity today is not the sect of Judaism started by Jesus Christ.
For that reason alone, I cannot accept Christianity (Paul’s teachings) as “the way and the truth.”
Today Christianity is based on Pauline Theology, but there was also Jewish Christianity, but they just disapear now
The other great religion that still hold tradition about Jesus is Islam, they maintain believe that Jesus as Messiah and will return in the end of time to fulfill his Messianic task for the world
Islam hold many similarity with Judaism, we can say Islam is some kind of new version of the Jewish Christianity with Arabian Prophet, Muhammad
I don’t strongly disagree with Caljack’s comments on Paul per se. That is certainly one way of understanding Paul’s role in the development of Christianity. I would just add that, while it is irrefutable that Jesus saw his mission principally focussed on the calling of Israel to repentance, he was not necessarily an exclusionary, Jewish nationalist. I mean by this that he did not limit the benefits of the kingdom to fellow Jews and he recognized that Gentiles were capable of righteousness as Gentiles. I think he had a conception of the kingdom and righteousness as encompassing non-Jews, a view shared by many Jews. Another way of understanding Paul is to see him as bringing Gentiles in to good standing with God – as Gentiles, and preparing them for God’s judgement. Paul taught Gentiles to stop idolatry, fornication, etc., all the things Jews found abhorrent and believed were universal laws for all nations. That is not necessarily inconsistent with Jesus’ teachings. Where Jesus and Paul greatly diverge in my view is on the continuing relevance and validity of not just Torah, but Judaism in general.
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And somebody had sheets of pork dropping out of heaven insisting that pete eat.
and jesus said he would draw all men to himself, even the poor and criminals and whores and sinners. it was only those know-it-all religious dudes he condemned to hell, i thought
Kitsuni, I agree that Jesus was open to the conversion of Gentiles to the Jewish faith, and that Paul was teaching universal laws for all nations. However, there is evidence that Jesus believed that the Gentiles were inferior to the Jews in the eyes of God, and that his mission was focused on the Jews only.
“It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” he told the Canaanite woman. (Mathew 15:26)
“I was sent only to help the people of Israel – God’s lost sheep – not the Gentiles.” (Mathew 15:24)
In addition, John the Baptist taught Jesus that the coming “Kingdom of God” was imminent. It would be a time when the Jews would reign over all nations, and the Gentiles would be punished. When Jesus started his mission, he chose twelve apostles to go out and preach of “the coming” to the twelve tribes of Israel, which were scattered throughout the Mediterranean world.
So, I don’t believe it was ever his intent to abandon Judaism, or to form a Jewish sect that included the Gentiles. Rather, it was Paul who focused on a world religion that included both Jews and Gentiles.
prestonp, My view is that Paul’s teachings did not always agree with the teachings of Jesus, particularly on the matter of Jew vs. Gentile. I realize that your quote represents the teachings of Paul. However, I don’t think it represents the teachings of Jesus.
I agree that Jesus often defended criminals, whores and sinners, and that Jesus agreed with John the Baptist’s dislike for the way the Pharisees and Sadducees represented the Jews.
Robert, I don’t think Jesus was that concerned about a person’ s heritage as he was about their Jewish practices. In other words, the men had to be circumcised and agree to live as Jews, and follow the Law of Moses.
One of the biblical quotes directing the twelve to go out and preach to the world is: “Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you:” Matthew 28:19.
Of course, the world of first century Jews consisted mostly of the Mediterranean nations, and his teaching required that they observe the Law of Moses (become Jews).
It was believed that the twelve tribes of Israel were scattered throughout the nations on the Mediterranean Sea. Travelling to these nations to preach does not assume that Jesus wanted them to preach to the Gentiles, although no effort was made to turn them away. It also says that they are to observe the teachings of Jesus, which included observing the Law of Moses and being circumcised.
The apostles had no trouble understanding what their mission was as stated by Jesus. That is why there was a conflict between the apostles and Paul regarding the inclusion of Gentiles.
We know that the apostles went out to these nations, so this biblical quote might be valid. However, a similar quote at the end of Mark is not considered to be authentic, but was added to Mark in later years. Is this what are referring to?
Actually, I prefer the argument that it is not authentic, because the argument that Jesus sent them out to baptize the gentiles is frequently quoted to me by my conservative friends. The thing is, it doesn’t make sense that way and is in conflict with Jesus’ teachings and with the position the apostles took when discussing this with Paul. Oh well, we know the bible is full of conflicts, which makes it hard to reach agreement on many issues.
It seems obvious to me that Jesus did not see himself as a God, nor as the founder of a new world religion. Rather, he saw himself as the Jewish Messiah. Also, it was never his intent to include the Gentiles. His life’s mission was to prepare the Jews for the coming Kingdom of God, and to free them from the Roman occupation of Palestine. Even Pontius Pilate and the Roman guards jokingly referred to him as the “King of the Jews.”
And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love. The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out, or you will be consumed by each other.…
I don’t know about you boys, but I can complicate the heck out of anything
Robert, You may be right, but it seems natural that most of the Christian Western World would be looking for rational reasons to justify our fundamental beliefs in Christianity and that it was intended for non-Jews.
On the other hand, it is true that I tend to see things as too black-and-white (until I don’t). I want to keep an open mind and understand both sides of any issue. That’s why blogs like this can be helpful in the search for truth. I was, by the way, a practicing Christian for over 40 years, until I decided that I could no longer defend it in good conscience.
I now see Jesus as a practicing Jew, who saw himself as the Messiah. He was convinced by John the Baptist that the coming of the Kingdom of God was imminent and he wanted to inform and prepare his fellow Jews for the event. End of story.
caljack said
[T]here is evidence that Jesus believed that the Gentiles were inferior to the Jews in the eyes of God, and that his mission was focused on the Jews only.“It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” he told the Canaanite woman. (Mathew 15:26)
“I was sent only to help the people of Israel – God’s lost sheep – not the Gentiles.” (Mathew 15:24)
You don’t think you might be quoting these passages wildly out of context?
caljack said
Vergari,So what is your view about the split of Christianity between Jesus and Paul and about the inclusion of gentiles?
Honestly, I don’t know. We don’t really have much evidence in the way of a “split” as between Jesus and Paul — other than, as you mention, that Jesus did not appear to select an apostle to the gentiles during his lifetime.
However, the texts upon which modern Christianity and our understanding of Jesus is based — principally Paul’s epistles, the Gospels and Acts — were all written to, for, while in and/or with a mind toward Christian communities that included substantial numbers of gentiles.
So the Christology preserved in the NT is highly receptive of gentiles.
Beyond that, we can say a little bit about the split between the church in Jerusalem and the churches outside of Jerusalem. But, of course, we can’t say for sure just how much the James’s Church in Jerusalem properly reflected the teachings and beliefs of Jesus.
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