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Why doesn't 'Acts' include any details past about AD 67, if it wasn't written till 75-85?
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tompicard

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September 27, 2016 - 3:11 pm

specifically why wouldn’t it tell Paul’s fate?

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gavriel

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October 6, 2016 - 7:23 am

tompicard said
specifically why wouldn’t it tell Paul’s fate?  

Well in fact the author knows that Paul is dead at the time of writing. See verse 20:25. The title is a later add-on, while the author intended to describe early Christianity through the life spans of Peter and Paul. And it ends when Paul is brought to silence in Rome, something the readers know, and by something awful the author does not want to make explicit.

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tompicard

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October 9, 2016 - 7:51 pm

so you wouldn’t find it odd if a history of the American Civil War ended with a very last sentence of 

“Abraham and Mary decided to enjoy a nice play at the Ford theater on the evening of April 4 1865”

As most readers know what happened and why make explicit something awful ?

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gavriel

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October 10, 2016 - 4:16 am

tompicard said
so you wouldn’t find it odd if a history of the American Civil War ended with a very last sentence of 

“Abraham and Mary decided to enjoy a nice play at the Ford theater on the evening of April 4 1865”

As most readers know what happened and why make explicit something awful ?  

It is not comparable. Acts is an ancient document completely beyond the standards of modern historians. Acts is a very stylised “spin doctor” product intended to show the harmony of early Christianity as a joint result of Peter and Paul. If you think of Acts as a kind of history of early Christianity up to the time of writing, then it would be odd that it ends with a descrete note on the death of Paul, because that is what it does. Paul is Luke’s foremost hero, and Acts ends when Paul dies, and Luke prefers to give an optimistic account of the final two years of Paul’s life. I think most critical scholars subscribe to this latter view. 

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tompicard

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October 10, 2016 - 9:30 pm

Gavriel, thanks for your ideas. 

I have been searching more on this, did you know that it seems like Paul’s last two years mentioned in Acts, probably were NOT the final two years of his life.

Those were two years before Paul’s FIRST trial, which he was likely freed from, there was another second trial after which he was executed. 

see ** you do not have permission to see this link **

of course this is totally tangential to my original question, just post it, if you might be interested.

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gavriel

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October 11, 2016 - 2:17 am

tompicard said
Gavriel, thanks for your ideas. 

I have been searching more on this, did you know that it seems like Paul’s last two years mentioned in Acts, probably were NOT the final two years of his life.

Those were two years before Paul’s FIRST trial, which he was likely freed from, there was another second trial after which he was executed. 

see ** you do not have permission to see this link **

of course this is totally tangential to my original question, just post it, if you might be interested.  

If it is true that the two years mentioned at the end of Acts were not the final two years, I would have to claim that Luke didn’t know that, in order to uphold my argument.

It is beyond doubt that Acts was written and may be was repeatedly edited, starting from at least 85. This is based on the argument that Luke used Mark and other sources for the gospel of Luke. Since Mark must have been written at a time when it was not available to Paul (there are no allusions to it in his letters, and he shows no knowledge of the gospel material), and Acts quite some time after Luke’s gospel, it means that it is impossible that Luke wrote Acts when Paul was alive.

On the other hand there are many clashes between the chronology that can be inferred from Paul’s seven authentic letters (accepted by all scholars) and that of Acts. So it is absolutely possible that Luke missed something.  The article you refer to builds the argument on 2 Tim. iv. 16, a letter that is often held to be not written by Paul, by critical scholars. But it could have been written by someone who had knowledge about the final years of Paul.

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Chris_Eyre

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October 21, 2016 - 4:24 am

I’ve seen it suggested that Acts may have been two volume to start with, and we’re missing the second volume (presumably because people decided that Paul’s death and whatever else was in there wasn’t part of the story they wanted to tell). I wonder if anyone can comment on how realistic this hypothesis is?

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gavriel

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November 11, 2016 - 2:54 am

Chris_Eyre said
I’ve seen it suggested that Acts may have been two volume to start with, and we’re missing the second volume (presumably because people decided that Paul’s death and whatever else was in there wasn’t part of the story they wanted to tell). I wonder if anyone can comment on how realistic this hypothesis is?  

May be it is more probable that Luke planned another volume, but never came to write it. That could explain why he quietly closes the “first” volume as Paul ends his life,  with only vague hints at it, and without any proper summing-up. At least to a modern reader.

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tompicard

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November 11, 2016 - 10:50 am

those are all interesting comments

When I wrote this question it was with this opinion

the most logical reason that Acts doesn’t include any details past 62 or 67 AD is that it was WRITTEN in either 62 or 67 AD.

 Of course, no one believes that and I suppose for good reason.

Does any one know if any of Paul’s epistles were written during the two year period mentioned in Acts? 

Some one who wrote as much as he did and who was relatively free in Rome should have left some letters.

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Stephen
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November 11, 2016 - 12:21 pm

Does any one know if any of Paul’s epistles were written during the two year period mentioned in Acts? 

Some one who wrote as much as he did and who was relatively free in Rome should have left some letters.

I don’t the chronology of Paul but there are folks who spend all their time on such things.

We know Paul wrote more letters than the genuine ones attributed to him because he himself refers to them.  But we are at the mercy of what managed to be preserved.  People don’t realize how sketchy our knowledge of the ancient world is.  Of the 120 plays that Sophocles is reported to have written (and he was considered the greatest playwright of ancient Greece) only seven remain.  The oldest surviving manuscripts of Plato are in Latin (not Greek) and date from 895 AD!

Those are the breaks.  We’re lucky to have what we have.

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gavriel

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November 12, 2016 - 6:20 pm

tompicard said
those are all interesting comments

When I wrote this question it was with this opinion

the most logical reason that Acts doesn’t include any details past 62 or 67 AD is that it was WRITTEN in either 62 or 67 AD.

 Of course, no one believes that and I suppose for good reason.

Does any one know if any of Paul’s epistles were written during the two year period mentioned in Acts? 

Some one who wrote as much as he did and who was relatively free in Rome should have left some letters.  

There are no good candidates among the undisputed letters. There are two “prison letters”, but they hardly fit in with the final Roman years.

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brownfish557

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December 14, 2017 - 7:52 pm

I don’t see the problem with allowing fundie assumptions and assuming an early date for Acts for the sake of argument.  

It isn’t like dating acts to a.d. 60 is going to give any advantage to the fundie.

The arguments justifying skepticism toward Luke’s honesty are not affected by early-dating Acts.

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