Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
Hebrew Torah to Greek Torah ? ? ? ?Ptolemy II Philadelphus reign: 284 BCE to 246 BCE |No Reason to have it in Greek before Then ? ? ?
Avatar
Steefen
7698 Posts
(Offline)
21
December 26, 2024 - 5:46 pm

picking up at 1:32:20 of the Gnostic Informant – Professor Gad Barnea, PhD Video:
Ancient Historian Destroys everything we thought about the Bible

The professor says the biblical Passover (passeh) is an echo of an earlier event appearing in an ostracon.

The passover is baded on the Zoroastrianism yasa (sp?) [event]. 1:45 28

Unlevened bread is important to the Persians, also.

Avatar
Steefen
7698 Posts
(Offline)
22
December 26, 2024 - 5:58 pm

Prof.:
Jews had female priestesses.

Pick up at 1:56.48 of 2:28.21

Avatar
Colin Milton

1142 Posts
(Offline)
23
December 26, 2024 - 6:33 pm

Hebrew
Aramaic
Greek
Talmud Hebrew
Masoreic Hebrew
Yiddish
Modern Hebrew
Zionist Hebrew

The Hebrew Torah and Masoreic Torah are not really the same thing. The modern Hebrew is not exactly the same thing as Masoreic.
No serioualy, Eliezer Ben Yahuda was warned by the Orthodox Rabbis that his son Ben Zion Ben Yahuda would be linguistically disabled if he only spoke a Hebrew”esque” language.

There’s really no such thing as the ancient Hebrew language or Hebrew Torah anymore.

Avatar
Steefen
7698 Posts
(Offline)
24
December 27, 2024 - 10:08 pm

Correction: Musaeus of Athen is fictional

Eusebius was trying to say Judaism was better than Greek culture and therefore Christianity is also better than Greek culture.

Avatar
Steefen
7698 Posts
(Offline)
25
December 28, 2024 - 12:04 pm

Avatar
Steefen
7698 Posts
(Offline)
26
December 28, 2024 - 12:05 pm

Avatar
Steefen
7698 Posts
(Offline)
27
December 28, 2024 - 12:23 pm

Marcus Magus put psychedelic drugs in the Eucharist.

What ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Behave.

The Levites used canabis ? ? ? What ? ? ? ? ?

2:02:19 That’s enough of this video. If he says anything else about the Greek vs the Hebrew Torah, too bad.

Avatar
Steefen
7698 Posts
(Offline)
28
December 28, 2024 - 5:01 pm

My comment for the video in the original post #1/p>

This is a two-part argument: 1) Ammon Hammon shows one cannot make a very good translation from a higher language, Ancient Greek to Ancient Hebrew and the higher Ancient Greek in the Septuagint could not come from the lower Ancient Hebrew in a proposed earlier Hebrew Bible and 2) Neal Sendiak in a later video says He did not find Ammon’s case was not convincing. Here, he makes a case that there wasn’t a Hebrew Bible before the Septuagint with Hebrew books of the Bible appearing in the DSS because Hebrew culture was influenced by the Greeks before Alexander the Great. Hebrews in Crete and Libya and a fictitious Musaeus of Athens does not prove there was no Hebrew Bible before the Septuagint ! ! ! ALTHOUGH AMMON DID AN EXCELLENT JOB COVERING ISAIAH CHAPTER 3, PEOPLE SAY THE ENTIRE HEBREW BIBLE WAS NOT TRANSLATED INTO GREEK WHEN PTOLEMY ORDERED THE TRANSLATION BUT ONLY THE TORAH WAS COMPLETED BY THE 70 SCHOLARS, SO WHY DIDN’T HAMMON USE GENESIS OR EXODUS, WHY IS HE GOING OUTSIDE THE TORAH TO DO HIS ANALYSIS ? ? ? ? It would have been better if he did 50% Torah and 50% outside the Torah or just 100% Torah. I should not have given this video a thumbs up.
– Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy (of the Bible, 1st edition).

Avatar
Colin Milton

1142 Posts
(Offline)
29
December 29, 2024 - 4:09 pm

Don’t worry, the antiquities markets will someday produce, I mean find an ancient Torah written in the proto-Canaanite pictograph scripts.

However,
The KJV probably used the Septuagint with the Masoretic to make the English translation.

Psalm is not a Hebrew word. Hebrew does not have an alphabet letter that transliterates to (ps).

Greek does, and psalm is an exact transliteration from ψάλμα.

So obviously the KJV did use the Septuagint with more books than the Apocrypha.

Avatar
Robert
7100 Posts
(Offline)
30
December 30, 2024 - 11:41 am
Avatar
Colin Milton

1142 Posts
(Offline)
31
December 30, 2024 - 6:08 pm

Where did the Greek go? Did the grammar rules even exist back then?

I don’t know what old Latin is. A kind of barbaric Greek spoken as an only language by barbarians.

I’m looking at a 1611 KJV English. The “s” is always:most often a “f” unless at the end of a word or capitalized: like how the lowercase Greek “sigma” has two shapes.
(It looks like an “f” without the magnifying glass being handy. f without the crossbar.) Nowadays it’d become a math symbol used for the integral in calculus. After Isaac Newton, everybody (myself) thought the KJV was a physics equation.

Pfalme:psalm

Eh 🤷‍♂️

I see an exception. “The passion” is spelled “pafsion”.

The English Torah written not by Isaac Newton for the barbarians. Less than historically accurate.

Avatar
Robert
7100 Posts
(Offline)
32
December 30, 2024 - 7:41 pm
Avatar
Colin Milton

1142 Posts
(Offline)
33
December 30, 2024 - 9:58 pm

Ok,

indirect object receives the direct object from the subject

dative case receives the accusative case from the nominative case.

God sends Moses to Pharaoh.
God: subject, nominative case
Moses: direct object, accusative case
Pharaoh: indirect object, dative case

Somehow there’s a linguistic way back 4000 years ago that indicates what order the words “who I am I am” “I am who am I?” and whether or not it was a question (?)

Avatar
Steefen
7698 Posts
(Offline)
34
May 15, 2025 - 7:08 pm

Bart weighs in

Avatar
Steefen
7698 Posts
(Offline)
35
May 15, 2025 - 7:15 pm

Bart
1 Thess, 49-50 CE, is the first Christian writing–19 or 20 year after Jesus died.

= = = = =

1 Thessalonians, a letter written by the Apostle Paul to the church in Thessalonica, is a powerful message of encouragement and hope amidst persecution. Paul commends their faith, love, and hope, addresses their concerns about Christ’s return and the timing of the end times, and encourages them to live holy lives. The letter emphasizes the importance of faith, hope, and love, and highlights the Christian’s role in living out these virtues in the world.

Here’s a more detailed breakdown:

Encouragement and Praise:
Paul expresses gratitude for the Thessalonians’ faith, love, and persevering in the face of hardship. He commends their growth in faith and their commitment to serving God.

Addressing Concerns:
The letter addresses anxieties the Thessalonians may have had regarding Christ’s return and the state of believers who had died before his return. Paul reassures them that believers who die will share in Christ’s glory and that the end times are not imminent.
Emphasis on Holy Living:
Paul encourages the Thessalonians to live lives of holiness, urging them to avoid immorality and to work diligently and responsibly.

Hope in Christ’s Return:
The letter emphasizes the hope of Christ’s return and the believers’ joyful participation in his second coming. Paul uses vivid imagery to paint a picture of believers meeting Jesus in the air and entering his kingdom.

Key Themes:
God’s wrath on those who reject the gospel.
The basis of Christian hope in Christ’s death and resurrection.
Christians are destined for salvation, not wrath.
The importance of faith, hope, and love.
The calling of believers to holiness and responsible living.

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7698
Stephen: 4540
Porphyry: 1835
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1341
BJH1960: 1186
brenmcg: 1184
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
Fl.o0wer42
MatthRicht
mleyba
wwbate
david.snider2
Greyguuze
hdblair
Jerry1909
Blair
cyfan7
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2606
Posts: 46020

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 65818
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 30
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)