The Tower of Babel account is not original to the book of Genesis.
Genesis 11: 1 says
Now the whole world had one language and a common form of speech.
Steefen
That is the topic of Comment 1.
Open AI tends to agree with Genesis 11: 1.
Genesis 11: 1 is not the original claim of this. There is an earlier source (Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta) that makes this claim.
Genesis 11: 7 says
Let US go down and confuse their language.
Steefen:
Who is US, plural?
= = = = =
The Flood and the Ark happened in earlier chapters of Genesis.
Steefen
The point is, when we look at former advanced civilizations, there are commonalities; for example, in architecture. Scattering people across the Earth did not have its desired affect. Second, languages can be translated. Third. today, there is international and global communication.
Reply
Was Babel More About Power than Language?
If the goal of Babel’s language confusion was to limit human collaboration, then history shows it ultimately failed. People still built civilizations, translated languages, and now reunite globally through modern technology.
So, was the real issue in Genesis 11 about controlling human ambition rather than merely scattering them?
Robert
It is not shocking that people who have not researched highly specialized information long available in scholarly commentaries or at least commentaries written by scholars for general audiences, where they can at least obtain some basic information and, for those interested, some direction for where to go to start getting deeper into the more more robust scholarship containing more information, more profound analyses, and a summary of recent scholarly discussion from multiple perspectives, illustrating where most scholars generally agree as well as the critical issues on which they disagree, the most important reasons for why they disagree.
Steefen
Second, Christians are told to read the bible. The Holy Bible I would like to use would state original sources as opposed to saying something is the genesis/beginning and it is not.
The truth came out.
The Genesis account was not the original source.
The God of the Bible was not the God across advanced civilizations.
The God of the Bible says nothing of significance about the Giza complex in Egypt, one of the largest structures on earth, and now even more of a marvel–even though God called Moses and Jesus out of Egypt.
God of the Holy Bible was in the beginning. People can reject that.
Jesus was in the beginning. People can reject that. Jesus was a tekton but not a master engineer capable of telling us in detail what the Giza complex was. Jesus never broadened his world view to include other advanced civilizations or more advanced civilizations.
But the dishonesty continued. There are Archaeological Study Bibles.
dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.F4hqnKZF2bWJPUIO2Z1GgJ8ZrBXog1sFF5vl3Sxcf44pEFjwrkVnEw3ij-PkrJ71yxkje34Wz-AiczhmR0stTkmiwbEA2TG_JO-blyXNg7jQq-HMmUsprI-2g5zId3FrCJiCEEn6FztwKMUuk-MLLiHAxE8NLc5_p8TUtNieZ4sC_ZxTO0a5NAtpsHFbsY5p-SJPc0XyGE0nE-tYKD4tEssIju11H80BzODw2UZ1z6U.bk0_q4QdcOr8SaGD0eroJdPt_9CpwL5_Tog1mngXVfE&dib_tag=se&keywords=archaeological+study+bible+niv&qid=1742865397&sprefix=Archaeological+%2Caps%2C124&sr=8-1
Robert
It is not shocking that people who have not researched highly specialized information long available in scholarly commentaries or at least commentaries written by scholars for general audiences, where they can at least obtain some basic information and, for those interested, some direction for where to go to start getting deeper into the more more robust scholarship containing more information, more profound analyses, and a summary of recent scholarly discussion from multiple perspectives, illustrating where most scholars generally agree as well as the critical issues on which they disagree, the most important reasons for why they disagree.
Steefen
Blame the customer. Buyer beware. Writers of sacred scripture CANNOT BE TRUSTED.
You better research the PhDs.
Well print a warning on the package.
We will name a book: Genesis/Beginning, but it is not the Genesis/Beginning.
Christians need to be people who research highly specialized information long available in scholarly commentaries or at least commentaries written by scholars for general audiences.
What world do you live in? That is NOT what is expected of Christians.
The HOLY Bible tells you one thing but ROBERT SAYS you better take the HOLY Bible as a half of a grain of salt because anything it says needs to be checked by scholars for expansion.
And you better not be shocked by unexpected discoveries.
Steefen said
ChatGPT was not shocked.
You are in error about that.
Robert
Please, do you seriously think that I believe that a bot has a genuine capacity to be shocked?
Steefen
Why did Robert write such nonsense? It’s probably an extension of his criticism of ChatGPT.
I don’t know, but there it is.
Robert
So what was my point?
Steefen
It was a programmed empathetic reply to maintain rapport.
Robert
a more effectively trained machine …would know the content of scholarly discussions of this topic.
Steefen
An instructor, a teacher, a parent knows these things AND an honor student will know these things.
Robert
what has long been known to scholars and those who study their works.
Steefen
As IF each minister or Adult Class teacher at a Fifth Avenue or Park Avenue Church has a resident scholar at church.
AS IF Seminarians communicate outside their field
AS IF Bart Ehrman did not see a need to share scholarship with the audience for trade books because Hell would freeze over before the former seminarian ministers/preachers would spill the beans.
Out of touch, out of touch. You’re really that ivory tower? ? ? ?
I’ve seen ministers share the pulpit with other ministers but not with scholars.
MAYBE a United Methodist Church on the same plot of land as Southern Methodist University will have an author series.
Let me see.
I do not see that they are bringing in outside speakers at this time.
But even if I search
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Venue: Kerygma
or
Topics: The Bible
There is NOTHING on Genesis, let alone non-Hebrew origins of Genesis.
So, you find a church that would have there members know what you think they should know.
Steefen
Second, Christians are told to read the bible. The Holy Bible I would like to use would state original sources as opposed to saying something is the genesis/beginning and it is not.
The truth came out.
The Genesis account was not the original source.
The God of the Bible was not the God across advanced civilizations.
The God of the Bible says nothing of significance about the Giza complex in Egypt, one of the largest structures on earth, and now even more of a marvel–even though God called Moses and Jesus out of Egypt.
God of the Holy Bible was in the beginning. People can reject that.
Jesus was in the beginning. People can reject that. Jesus was a tekton but not a master engineer capable of telling us in detail what the Giza complex was. Jesus never broadened his world view to include other advanced civilizations or more advanced civilizations.
But the dishonesty continued. There are Archaeological Study Bibles.
Robert
Seek out a publisher who sees a market for such. If none exist, the most effective way to find something comparable will be in commentaries and libraries.
What dishonesty?
Steefen
You think congregations know about the Sumerians accounts?
You think Genesis covers the Giza plateau?
You think Jesus was an engineer capable of explaining the Giza plateau? No, you don’t.
You think Jesus and His Heavenly Father know about the genetic engineering that created humans?
You think Jesus and His Heavenly Father know there are 11 dimensions to reality?
You think Jesus and His Heavenly Father know about the multiverse>?
You think Jesus and His Heavenly Father know about the Post-Rosetta Stone Perspective?
Did Jesus solve the problem of why David and Solomon are skant in the archaeology and ancient history fields of knowledge?
Robert
Did somebody knowingly and thus deceptively claim otherwise, that archeological bibles did not exist, when they knew full well that they did in fact exist?
Steefen
The archaeological Bibles that do exist fail to cover a non-existent Hebrew God overseeing ancient civilizations.
Robert quoting Steefen but does not know why?
You better research the PhDs.
Steefen (explaining)
Given the inadequacies in the Holy Bible,
when people let ministers feed them Judeo-Christianity
those people are buyers who need to beware by researching the PhDs.
What is going on?
Oh, you would have known this IF you had read The Grey Wolf The Escape of Hitler.
Yea, he was in Argentina, had two daughters, he died in the mid-1960s.
dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.WywSUUThlxwzcvOZ8ueaoor_QOHWZarWQwSccPin9G6t1KwJdUxo4zFtYYaLM0_Wu-W4QLBP_IkrFr–Ml2t_oiXKvBHOhjCSFIXNvikzBMqhOhKyvXsJfGA4R1ZWfBd1g20-0QYTKJDLYdByd4pl5j8zwb5SzRbMNkuSdVUOnPY9PtJT_26LNApuWnDcclp4RbAme6LNyUureVptIvlbwX0Om9j1NDjox78wYNabBY.8jCaMLU3J0azCNjz7FJvo4naqQIm6IeGRD6XQpmR7XY&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+gray+wolf+the+escape+of+hitler&qid=1742965626&s=books&sprefix=the+gray+wolf+the+escape+of+hitler%2Cstripbooks%2C75&sr=1-1
Well exxxxcuuuuse me, I was at the cinema watching Bonhoffer, the movie about the pastor.
So, Bonhoeffer died for nothing.
Boys from Brazil
You know. You have to stop going to the cinema.
Steefen:
I was living in New York City and …
Yes, Dietrich Bonhoeffer preached in New York, specifically at a Methodist church in Yonkers on Armistice Day in November 1930, and he also spent time at the Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem, where he taught Sunday school and learned from the African-American church experience.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
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Robert
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