Steefen said
Chris_Hansen said
Explain to us how we can know Vespasian did not live the experience or his supporters for him becoming Emperor did not disburse the propaganda before, as you assert, Suetonius made up the biographical event.
I can see the propaganda serving Vespasian while he was alive. Tell us how it served him after he had already died and been deified.
Just because something could have happened before, does not mean that it did. Sure, he could have circulated the propaganda while still alive. That still doesn’t mean (1) that the Gospels were inspired by him, and (2) that something could happen does not increase what probably happened. You have not shown any evidence he did this in his lifetime, therefore, you merely have conjecture.
Steefen
Not persuasive. Get to your persuasive points quicker.
Chris
The account of Vespasian healing the blind doesn’t not even exist until the second century when Suetonius creates it, long after Paul at least the first three Gospels were written.
Steefen
Give us articles or books that state Suetonius made up the event or the propaganda and why. If you do not have that, I do not have time for your erroneous, ungrounded assertions.
Obviously you do have time for me, otherwise you would actually practice what you preach and ignore me, like you said you would ten times already. You are a pretty inconsistent fellow. Also, big talk from someone who never cites anything almost ever.
Steefen said
ChrisAs for your last comments, they are irrelevant, incoherent, and once again just drivel. Come back when you have something to add of value.
Steefen
Wrong.
You may like expressing confidence but you should really stop confidently exhibiting your problems in reading comprehension.
The last comments brings the discussion back to the point: raising the dead to life and specifically raising the dead in Hell out of Hell-agrarian death and agrarian rebirth. You can say all you want that you do not think Christianity is not syncing with the Elusinian Mysteries but your erroneous headline means nothing without justification.
Demeter’s child annually is celebrated for coming back to life: Jesus (child of the Father) is annually celebrated for dying and coming back to life.
Demeter’s child is Persephone. She does not die, and does not come back to life. Entering the Underworld or Hades is not the same as dying, cf. Odysseus, Rhampsinitus, and Herakles, who all enter and return alive.
And until you provide peer reviewed scholarship proving that Christianity was syncretized with the Eleusinian mysteries, I am done responding to you. I’ve read your pathetic book, and half of its scholarship is thirty years outdated, and what isn’t outdated is misused and misunderstood. I guess that is why it was self published. Also, Jesus only died and returned once. Persephone annually went to the underworld and returned. There is no parallel. You are mixing and matching celebrations, but missing the ritual significance, which just shows how amateurish you are. That a celebration happens annually is insignificant and boring. What matters is why it happens, and there is no parallel between Persephone and Jesus which is valid, and no real scholars think so either, to my knowledge.
Meanwhile, every major scholar has rejected such claims as Christianity being syncretized with the Eleusinian mysteries. Hans-Josef Klauck and Terri Moore are just two of the most recent scholars to refute such claims.
How about you bring some actual scholarship, and not just your “looks alike is alike” amateur game. If I wanted that, I could ask the Pizza delivery boy about it, I’m sure he would have more rigorous things to say than you.
Your position depended on you providing scholarship that as you said, Suetonius created the account of Vespasian as healer or Suetonius created the account of the propaganda of Vespasian healing.
You failed to provide this critical support for your assertion: your assertion fails.
We politely waited so we could agree with you.
Steefen said
Your position depended on you providing scholarship that as you said, Suetonius created the account of Vespasian as healer or Suetonius created the account of the propaganda of Vespasian healing.You failed to provide this critical support for your assertion: your assertion fails.
We politely waited so we could agree with you.
Assertions don’t fail because they don’t have a scholar to support them. Otherwise, we could automatically dismiss your entire book, which no real scholar agrees is correct. We could also dismiss the vast majority of all mythicist work carte blanche as well, for the same reason. Also, it is widely agreed that Suetonius made things up (** you do not have permission to see this link **). Just look at the opening page of that document there, many scholars just outright dismiss him for his unreliable scholarship, and you’ll find (what still rings true today in modern scholarship) that Suetonius invented, gossiped, and falsified legends about his predecessors.
Lastly, as I noted above, I am not saying that Suetonius necessarily invented the legend of Vespasian healing the blind. The point is that there is no evidence of this legend before him. Therefore, if you claim that story existed prior to Suetonius, you have no clear evidence. It is conjecture. And you know what they say: that which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. You have provided no evidence that the Vespasian legend predates Seutonius. Therefore, I can dismiss your claim without evidence.
JAS said
Chris_Hansen said
How about you bring some actual scholarship, and not just your “looks alike is alike” amateur game. If I wanted that, I could ask the Pizza delivery boy about it, I’m sure he would have more rigorous things to say than you.
. . . plus, pizza.
Mmmmmm…. pizzzzzza
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