Does the Gospel of John, Chapter 1, tell us Jesus existed from the beginning?
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Yes, John 1:1-3 in the Gospel of John strongly emphasizes that Jesus (referred to as “the Word”) existed from the beginning. This passage is often cited as a foundational Christian text for the belief in the pre-existence of Christ, meaning that Jesus existed before His incarnation on Earth. Here’s the relevant portion from John 1:1-3 (NIV translation):
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.
Key Points:
“In the beginning was the Word”: This asserts that the Word (understood to be Jesus) existed from the very beginning, before creation.
“The Word was with God, and the Word was God”: This highlights both the distinction and the unity between Jesus (the Word) and God. It supports the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, where Jesus is seen as both distinct from and one with God.
“Through Him all things were made”: This establishes Jesus’ active role in creation, further underscoring His eternal nature and divine status.
Later in the chapter, John 1:14 confirms that “the Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us”, indicating that the pre-existent Word took on human form as Jesus Christ.
Thus, the Gospel of John, Chapter 1, clearly teaches that Jesus existed before the creation of the world and that He was involved in the act of creation, affirming His divine nature.
I have interpreted the passage as being about the new heaven and new earth. It was not meant as extra details about Genesis 1.
Isaiah 65-66 is the source.
As part of new form of Judaism life without a Temple, the old city of Jerusalem, and the animal sacrifices, the era of the new heaven and new earth began when Jesus was born. The world was judged by the Father but Jesus was the advocate and sword to save the world by requesting forgiveness instead. John 12:47 and Isaiah 66:16.
Colin looked at Isaiah 65: 17
“See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy.
I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.
v 223
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the LORD, they and their descendants with them.
c 22
No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands.
The traditional interpretation is that John 1 with Genesis 1 support the Holy Trinity concept. John 1 mentions the WORD:Son and God. God meaning all three:Father, Son, Spirit. Genesis 1:1-2 mentions the Spirit of God:Holy Spirit and God. So by combining both Genesis and John it derives that Jesus is the WORD and God, the Holy Spirit:Spirit of God is also God, and since Jesus spoke about the Father God; it was concluded that the Father, Son, and Spirit are God. John 1 supports that the WORD was not created and Genesis 1 supports that the Holy Spirit was not created. Hence all three must have existed simultaneously and not have been created: co-eternal.
If the rules are to only interpret John 1, then yes, it supports a Binity (the Word:He, He was with God) in the same way that Genesis 1 (God and the Spirit of God) supports a Binity. At least to me anyways if defining each as a separate person of God. Judaism however, never considered Genesis 1 to mean there was two persons known of God. Sorta that’s probably not exactly true considering thousands of years and hundreds of millions of Jews throughout history thinking about it. I don’t know.
Bart:
It is not saying there was one before the Trinity since it doesn’t mention there being a (later) Trinity.
Steefen:
John 1: 2-3 added Jesus to the creator-god of Genesis to make Jesus one with God.
To do that a Binity is created. Yes, later, the concept of Trinity is developed.
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning when God created the heavens [the Universe] and the earth…
Is that God plural?
Is it in the beginning when God (the Elohim) created the heavens [the Universe] and the earth…?
Wherever there is Elohim, the notion of Trinity is expanded and Elohim is the Father.
Still, to the original point. It is about what the author of Gospel of John did. He raised Christ. And you probably put this in How Jesus Became God. Author of Gospel of John made Jesus part of the Creator-God.
What the author of Gospel of John did not do is also make the Holy Spirit Creator-God.
How Jesus Became God is one of Prof Ehrman’s best books. Well worth a look.
I think it’s best to interpret John’s Christology as having the view of the Logos as a divine emanation that assumes an independent existence in Jesus. Possibly the highest Christology in the NT, still light-years away from Nicene Trinitarianism. Definitely read Alan Segal.
John 1:13-14 is a continuation of the miraculous virgin birth. It says the Word became flesh as a child born of God. The Word is the Trinity. Jesus was the Word here on Earth. The Word is the Father, Son, and Spirit all in one body with a human like form and flesh.
John 1:18 means that nobody has ever seen the Father. The Father was inside Jesus. People did see Jesus, the Son and Holy Spirit but they never saw the Father, hence no one can truly ever see all that is the Trinity:Word.
That’s what it means 🤷♂️
I don’t understand it.
Jn 1: 4
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
Steefen:
Maybe this qualifying verse explains that the author of John is ONLY speaking of the beginning of modern Homo sapiens.
SO THE NOTION OF GOD IN GOSPEL OF JOHN is not Creator-God, creator of the universe? ? ? ?
Robert, pre-exisent Jesus goes back when?
to the creation of modern Homo sapiens, 160,000 years ago
OR
only this epoch of human existence?
This is the Hebrew Year 5785.
According to tradition,
the Hebrew calendar started at the time of creation,
placed at 3761 BCE.[5] The current (2024/2025) Hebrew year is 5785.
So Gospel of John goes back only to 3761 BCE?
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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