Follow up question to Prof. Ehrman, but anyone can comment on how Gospel of John author was limited
Prof. Ehrman
Do you think the author of Gospel of John is using the Hebrew calendar concept of the beginning?
According to tradition, the Hebrew calendar started at the time of creation, placed at 3761 BCE.
In the beginning (3761 BCE) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
It is probably incorrect to use today’s science, using dates for Homo sapiens sapiens, or the age of the Sun or the Age of the Universe? ? ?
John 1:13-14 is a continuation of the miraculous virgin birth. It says the Word became flesh as a child born of God. The Word is the Trinity. Jesus was the Word here on Earth. The Word is the Father, Son, and Spirit all in one body with a human like form and flesh.
John 1:18 means that nobody has ever seen the Father. The Father was inside Jesus. People did see Jesus, the Son and Holy Spirit but they never saw the Father, hence no one can truly ever see all that is the Trinity:Word.
That’s what it means 🤷♂️
I don’t understand it.
How do you know that’s what it means if you don’t understand it?
There’s no mention of the Virgin Birth in John. (Joseph is identified as Jesus’ father twice, once by a friend and once by enemies.) There’s no mention of the Trinity in John. The Logos was a divine emanation of God embodied in Jesus. Nicene Trinitarianism was a product of the third and fourth centuries. The dominant Christology in the second century was what’s called Subordinationism. This the view of Paul in Philippians 2. Jesus is a pre-existent created divine being who because of his faithfulness has been exalted. If the Trinity is in the NT how come nobody figured it out until two centuries later?
Read Ehrman’s book. It goes over all this stuff very well.
Robert
Primordial Light, the Light of Humankind
Steefen
I’m looking for a year, Robert. What year should people think author of John was using for creation?
Robert
A profound and ancient understanding of GEnesis 1: 1-3. It’s a spectacular theological vision.
Steefen
Were there any dvvelopment that would give people of the first century to date the creation earlier than what today would be 5785 years ago, 3761 BCE?
Was Genesis 1 a prophecy in this ancient Hebrew story?
The heavens and earth were without form until the Light became flesh and dwelt among them here on Earth? The new heaven and new earth began with the Word.
First came the Light. Second the baptism by water and spirit. Third we have the Way, a path here on Earth, the ground. Fourth we have the vine that produces good fruit. Fifth we have the Light to separate the light from darkness. Six, we have the fishers of men and the sheep, and the Son of Man becomes the Son of God during the Transfiguration.
Then we have the Garden of Eden where sin entered the world and the crucifixion where the sins of the world were taken away. And God takes a rest during the seventh day, returns on the eighth day to be circumcised.
All six days of creation in Genesis 1 are somehow symbolic to various NT passages about Jesus.
It’s not my personal beliefs. I look at the NT like a creative writer and look at the OT for story ideas. Like if Moses parted the Red Sea and struck a rock with a staff to bring forth water, then Jesus should have some water miracles too. (Walking on water and turning water into wine.)
Creative writing
What did Jesus do during the three days in Hell?
Since the Torah was usually written on parchment, therefore Jesus the sacrificial Lamb of God wrote the teachings on his flesh with his blood. When he rose from the dead he was no longer flesh. These texts were then placed inside the Ark of the Covenant by an angel who understood it as the Seven Seals or whatever it is, waiting to be found during the Second Coming. Like Ron Wyatt claimed, the Ark of the Covenant is underneath the crucifixion site. He saw it. 🤷♂️
Colin,
Jesus was not only compared to Moses, he was compared to Greek Gods as well.
Since Greek Gods Herea and Hermes crossed waters, Jesus could do that also.
Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark by Dennis MacDonald
-Steefen
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Yes, Robert, the link you provided was topical and interesting.
“Numerous efforts have been made to determine the biblical date of creation, yielding varying results. Besides differences in interpretation, the use of different versions of the Bible can also affect the result. Two dominant dates for creation using such models exist, about 5500 BC and about 4000 BC.”
According to tradition, the Hebrew calendar started at the time of creation, placed at 3761 BCE.
In the beginning (3761 BCE) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
= = = = = = = =
So, let’s not quibble:
3,764 BCE
4,000 BCE
5,500 BCE
4.543 billion years, today’s age of the earth.
13+ billion years, today’s age of the universe
Gospel of John author would have been no way near what is acceptable today.
And as for what was created using his unaided human eye, he would not have gotten that factor of the equation correct either.
so, John promotes Jesus to a divine figure in the presence of God from the beginning of creation, you say.
Jesus’ pre-existence goes back no more than 5,500 years.
Jesus is the Word of God. The first word of God RELATIVE TO the creation of the Earth in its Solar System is “Light”
John 1:4
In him was life and THAT LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF ALL HUMANKIND.
So, John shortens creation to a humankind-specific creation, modern homo sapiens: 160,000 years.
Everyone is free to create their own universe of meaning, of course!
No! Everyone must agree with me on every little detail lest ye be cast into Outer Darkness where the worms spend eternity gnashing their teeth.
Jesus was not only compared to Moses, he was compared to Greek Gods as well. Since Greek Gods Herea and Hermes crossed waters, Jesus could do that also. Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark by Dennis MacDonald
Ehhh…I’m not completely sold on this idea. MacDonald is not just saying that a literate composer would have been exposed to Homer during his education but that the author of Mark used Homer as an actual template for his gospel. On the contrary I think you can make the case that the author was thoroughly familiar with the Hebrew scriptures and that was his primary source material. Not Homer. For this reason and others I do hold the opinion that the author was probably a Hellenized diaspora Jew like Paul. Not a gentile.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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