Stephen said
What makes you think all the rest of the disciples were killed with James?
Britannica
Three years after Paul’s conversion, James was an important leader in the Jerusalem church (Galatians 1:18–19), where he assumed even more significance after King Herod Agrippa I of Judaea in about AD 44 beheaded the Apostle St. James, son of Zebedee, and after Peter fled from Jerusalem (Acts 12:1–17).
James was the chief spokesman for the Jerusalem church at the Council of Jerusalem regarding Paul’s mission to the Gentiles (Acts 15:13) and final visit to Jerusalem (Acts 21:18).
Wikipedia
He died a martyr.
Steefen, Argumentation Specialist
It was not James alone who was put to death in Josephus’s account.
Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road.
So, Ananus ben Ananus assembled the sanhedrin of judges and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, or some of his companions; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them [not him singular] to be stoned.
Jewish authorities did not like Jesus and had him killed.
Jews did not like Paul, follower of Jesus, and tried to kill him.
Jewish authorities did not like James (a leader in Jesus’ church) and had him killed.
It is likely that involvement with Jesus church (community) brought James and members of that church to capital punishment.
Steefen said
Stephen said
What makes you think all the rest of the disciples were killed with James?
Britannica
Three years after Paul’s conversion, James was an important leader in the Jerusalem church (Galatians 1:18–19), where he assumed even more significance after King Herod Agrippa I of Judaea in about AD 44 beheaded the Apostle St. James, son of Zebedee, and after Peter fled from Jerusalem (Acts 12:1–17).
James was the chief spokesman for the Jerusalem church at the Council of Jerusalem regarding Paul’s mission to the Gentiles (Acts 15:13) and final visit to Jerusalem (Acts 21:18).
Wikipedia
He died a martyr.
Steefen, Argumentation Specialist
It was not James alone who was put to death in Josephus’s account.
Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road.
So, Ananus ben Ananus assembled the sanhedrin of judges and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, or some of his companions; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them [not him singular] to be stoned.
The only person actually named by Josephus, in referring to this incident, is James, the brother of Jesus; we have no evidence of a large-scale persecution of the inner circle of the Jesus movement. Indeed, it seems likely that James was killed for political reasons, more than religious ones, given the involvement of Ananus in the machinations leading to the revolt.
Norman, you are in error.
So, Ananus ben Ananus assembled the sanhedrin of judges and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, or some of his companions; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them [not him singular] to be stoned.
James and some others who were not named personally received the death penalty. Without complicating the matter, James and some others does not equal James and a “large-scale” persecution of the inner circle of the Jesus movement.
What are you doing? Jumping from James and a maximum of 10 to a large-scale number of approximately how many?
Ananus ben Ananus was a Sadducee who was rigid in judging offenders. In his mind, James and others broke the Law.
Those who were fair-minded and those who cared about the lawbreaking of James and others, both thought Ananus ben Ananus over-stepped by convening a sanhedrin without the knowledge of the Roman governor–especially with the outcome being multiple capital punishments.
Bart said Jesus actually only had a few followers.
We cannot be sure Jesus had 12 disciples.
= = =
Agrippa I killed James the apostle, leaving 11, at most.
Peter fled Jerusalem, leaving 10, at most.
The king did not like this group.
No one can deny that James the brother of Jesus provided leadership to this group.
Ananus ben Ananus did not like James and some in James’s clan, likely the remaining 10.
One Law that was broken was the consumption of human body and blood, ritualistically, not only in the group of 10 but in the Pauline group as well.
Second, neither Acts nor the authentic Pauline letters provide details, prayers, sympathies, and succession after the death of James.
Checking Wikipedia
Vespasian’s siege and capture of Jerusalem delayed the selection of Simeon of Jerusalem to succeed James.
According to Philip Schaff in 1904, this account by “Hegesippus has been cited over and over again by historians as assigning the date of the martyrdom to 69,” though he challenged the assumption that Hegesippus gives anything to denote such a date.[87] Josephus does not mention in his writings how James was buried.[88]
Simeon of Jerusalem, son of Clopas, was a Jewish Christian leader and according to most Christian traditions the second Bishop of Jerusalem (62 or 70–107).
Steefen wrote: “No one can deny that James the brother of Jesus provided leadership to this group.”
Steefen,
In your view, is it possible that this “James” called “the brother of Jesus” was James, son of Alphaeus,** you do not have permission to see this link ** and, thus, not a blood brother of Jesus in the sense that Mary “the mother of the Lord” was his mother?
Gregory
In your view, is it possible that this “James” called “the brother of Jesus” was James, son of Alphaeus,** you do not have permission to see this link **..f_Alphaeus?
Steefen
You are providing evidence that James the Less, son of Alphaeus, was one of the companions of James the Just who was stoned according to the capital punishment initiated by Ananus ben Ananus.
No, in my opinion, it is not possible that James the Just was James the Less.
My apologies for my absence. Thank you, Robert, that is, indeed, what I was referring to, to some degree. As to a couple of points that Steefen made, let me comment; as I have said before, it is extremely difficult to separate politics from religion in the Hebrew world of the first century.From what evidence we have, it seems Ananus was determined to maintain control at a time of extreme factionalization in Jerusalem, and the execution of James et. al. can be seen as part of this, whatever religious charges Ananus may have used. As for how many “disciples” that may have been extant at the time of Jame’s execution: we are talking about events nearly 30 years after the death of Jesus. It would be extremely presumptuous of us to expect the nucleus that Jesus left behind to have remained static. Many of the disciples had spread out into the diaspora, some may have passed away; we simply have no idea how many people made up the inner circle in Jerusalem and who they may have all been.
Norman Russell
“All who were left”? To whom are you referring? James “and some of his companions”?(Josephus) The Jerusalem chapter as a whole?
Steefen
I do not understand the trouble you have comprehending the flow of this thread.
Josephus simply says others/companions.
The Bible said James had a leadership role in the Jerusalem church.
The idea being explored is, members of the Jerusalem church/original disciples were the others/companions that received the death penalty with James.
Agreed; Josephus definitely refers to “others” or “companions”. The read I get from that is that Josephus is referring to whomever was with James at the time of his arrest, rather than a “round-up” of the inner circle. Your “all the rest” wasn’t clear to me. It seems to me that the two of us are arguing over a point we more or less agree on.
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