Robert said
Not necessarily. But when the God Most High is surrounded by a council of other, lesser gods, that is probably derived from earlier Canaanite traditions. We see this in ancient Ugaritic texts, for example.
Jarek, that is not the case with the two verses you included in your post:
“Not only Paul or John. ** you do not have permission to see this link **. Jesus is YHWH.”
Robert said
Jarek said
El-elyon was Marcion’s Unknown God, Jesus was his true son, and YHWH was false son demiurg. Maybe????
When Tertullian cites Marcion’s version of Luke 6,35 and 8,38 he has merely ‘son(s) of God’ and not ‘son(s) of the the Most High (God)’ so we cannot be sure that he attributed any specific meaning to ‘El-elyon’.
Or maybe it is an elevation of Jesus by Mark and Luke without understanding [the Canaanite] meaning “Most High”
I think this is the more modest and therefore the more probable interpretation. Margaret Barker may be making too much of too little.
Margaret is wrong. Son of MH Jesus is brother of YHWH. According to Marcion
Robert said
Jarek, do you have a quote and citation for Marcion saying that Jesus is the brother of Yahweh? I am not an expert on Marcion, but that doesn’t sound right to me.
Judith Lieu book is great.Marcion Making of Heretic. And lecture ** you do not have permission to see this link ** . No quote. Pure logic. And Luke 10:22.
For Marcion OT was a biography of YHWH and his covenant with chosen relatively small nation. Rather difficult relation. Now there is a new covenant with whole humanity with the Lord Of Peace and Love. Much better much wider.
In LXX, in Mark in Luke we have 3 deities: Most High, YHWH, Jesus. That was a source for Marcion. Who is Unknown God, who is Lord, who is Demiurg?
Robert said
Jarek said
Robert said
Jarek, do you have a quote and citation for Marcion saying that Jesus is the brother of Yahweh? I am not an expert on Marcion, but that doesn’t sound right to me.
Judith Lieu book is great.Marcion Making of Heretic. And lecture. No quote. Pure logic. And Luke 10:22.
For Marcion OT was a biography of YHWH and his covenant with chosen relatively small nation. Rather difficult relation. Now there is a new covenant with whole humanity with the Lord Of Peace and Love. Much better much wider.
In LXX, in Mark in Luke we have 3 deities: Most High, YHWH, Jesus. That was a source for Marcion. Who is Unknown God, who is Lord, who is Demiurg?
Does she say this somewhere in this video? Is this her logical deduction? Or perhaps yours?
It is mine. But the lecture and discussion is very good
More bad news. Paul, who at one time gloried in his Jewish heritage, applied to his KYPIOΣ “Lord,” Jesus Christ, sacred scripture originally reserved for Yahweh.
So Marcion’s theology is based on small divine realm in the form of pyramid based on Mark or Luke and Paul’s Letters.
Unknown God= El Elyon= Father of YHWH=Father of Jesus.
Verily I tell you Jesus was falsely accused by the Jews and crucified by the Romans because the author was Greek with specific sense of humor.
That was clever hostile takeover of LXX. Much clever then Mathew's prophecies.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
1 Guest(s)